Somalia: State of the Nation 1 January, 2010

[AbdiWahab252]

He is advocating someone to have come to the aid of Cabdi Qaybdid's isbaaro on the road to Afgooye. Why would any sane person help Muuse Suudi and Qanyare and Cabdi Qaybdiid?

I will choose anyone over these mindless and moronic i.diots.

Abdi-qaybdid and Indocade are basically the last surviving warlords in Mogadishu. To say that warlordism exists in Somalia, at least in the traditional form, is utterly simplistic.

Again, not the first time you have taken political positions based on the clan dynamics

Twisted Logic,

Although we agree 95% of the time, I must point this out:

Ina adeer, Abdi Qeybdiid and Indocaade were never warlords. To be a warlord, you had to attend a peace conference of sorts, head a political party and sign some sort of political party agreement. Mr. Qeybdiid never had his own political party, participated in a peace conference as a facitonal leader or signed any political party agreement. He worked for Caydiid (AUN) and Cisman Caato until 2000. The same can be said for Indocaade.

[Twisted_Logic]

At this point, I don't even think if I should bother replying to you. But please tell me how a gang-leader whose entire world-view never extends beyond the confines of his block is more of a threat than an international jihadist who wants to convert everyone to their perverted interpretation of Islam, forcefully marrying young girls off, who cut of hands of innocent people, who bomb residential areas, who punish people because they wear "gold."

You are a failure. You always were

You don't see the motive of why I'd rather have them than the warlords?

Think man

Come-on FAH1223, you never think, so why would you ask me to think for you? You scratch your head and think of the cutest sentence in the English Language to impress Alluring and her Dooro fans.

[Voltage]

The warlords are truly despicable mother fockers.

Nothing is worse than the warlords, nothing. When we look at the Shabaab and their little ally Hisbul Islam, we have to look at the repercussions from two-fold. One is to look at their impact to the Somali people in Somalia, and another is their impact for Somalia to the world and the Diaspora Somalis.

As Murax said, the implications of their existence i negative for us Diaspora Somalis because we will now become a "profile" and it is negative for the relations between Somalia and the world, but to the average Somali man and woman in Somalia, the peace, security, and trust these guys provide is 100X more better than the era of mindless warlordism.

[Twisted_Logic]

He is advocating someone to have come to the aid of Cabdi Qaybdid's isbaaro on the road to Afgooye. Why would any sane person help Muuse Suudi and Qanyare and Cabdi Qaybdiid?

I will choose anyone over these mindless and moronic i.diots.

Abdi-qaybdid and Indocade are basically the last surviving warlords in Mogadishu. To say that warlordism exists in Somalia, at least in the traditional form, is utterly simplistic.

Again, not the first time you have taken political positions based on the clan dynamics

Twisted Logic,

Although we agree 95% of the time, I must point this out:

Ina adeer, Abdi Qeybdiid and Indocaade were never warlords. To be a warlord, you had to attend a peace conference of sorts, head a political party and sign some sort of political party agreement. Mr. Qeybdiid never had his own political party, participated in a peace conference as a facitonal leader or signed any political party agreement. He worked for Caydiid (AUN) and Cisman Caato until 2000. The same can be said for Indocaade.

It is a matter of semantics. Our good friends Voltage and Murux would swear to you that Barre Hiraale is/was never a warlord

[AbdiWahab252]

FAH,

Quick question, assuming Al Shabab take over Somalia completely, what next ?


TL,

True.... I guess every Somali political figure is a warlord.

[Grunt]

It is a matter of semantics. Our good friends Voltage and Murux would swear to you that Barre Hiraale is/was never a warlord

You disagree that Hiraale isn't a warlord?

[FAH1223]

The warlords are truly despicable mother fockers.

Nothing is worse than the warlords, nothing. When we look at the Shabaab and their little ally Hisbul Islam, we have to look at the repercussions from two-fold. One is to look at their impact to the Somali people in Somalia, and another is their impact for Somalia to the world and the Diaspora Somalis.

As Murax said, the implications of their existence i negative for us Diaspora Somalis because we will now become a "profile" and it is negative for the relations between Somalia and the world, but to the average Somali man and woman in Somalia, the peace, security, and trust these guys provide is 100X more better than the era of mindless warlordism.

Exactly.

Even with all their dumbass moves and rhetoric... they are an authority...and more centralized than clan fiefdoms and warlord territories. Even though these teenagers themselves have spread across clan lines.


AW,

It will be Afghanistan 1996-2001.

After that, history might repeat, if you catch my drift.

[GENERAL_SNM]

We dont have any plans to be part of somalia, what makes you think we want to be part of ethiopia?

As for choosing between some seriously messed up misguided souls called al-shabab, and the career criminal warlords, I think Al-Shabab and their medieval methods are better. Because the criminals dont ever plan to go paradise so have no intention of ever doing good, but Al-Shabab's goals are to go paradise so they have to score high on the good points..

[Voltage]

Abdi-qaybdid and Indocade are basically the last surviving warlords in Mogadishu. To say that warlordism exists in Somalia, at least in the traditional form, is utterly simplistic.

Again, not the first time you have taken political positions based on the clan dynamics

Abdi Qaybdiid and Indhocade are nobodies. Abdi Qaybdiid was kept from being irrelavent by Abdullahi Yusuf and Indhocade has been breastfed and weaned by Xassan Dahir until he recently disobeyed and was accepted into the TFG because news of successful defections from the opposition was what the TFG wanted at that time. To say Warlordism in traditional sense did not exist in Somalia is actually something I agree with because warlords in traditional sense are governors of regions and effectively rule, Abdullahi Yusuf and Riyaale are warlords in this case, but the ones in Mogadishu are beautified by calling them warlords. The mad max world they presided over needs a more appropriate political situation labeling than just "warlordism".

[FAH1223]

We dont have any plans to be part of somalia, what makes you think we want to be part of ethiopia?

As for choosing between some seriously messed up misguided souls called al-shabab, and the career criminal warlords, I think Al-Shabab and their medieval methods are better. Because the criminals dont ever plan to go paradise so have no intention of ever doing good, but Al-Shabab's goals are to go paradise so they have to score high on the good points..

clever

[Shirib]

Just look at this thread, no one here really supports Shabaab, but no one really has a viable alternative and that is the problem. As long as the people see the alternative as anarchy and warlords these guys will continue to exist.

When Somali's get together and find a viable solution, Al Shabaab will be defeated as quickly as they came.

Thats the sad truth or atleast way I perceive it lol

[Grunt]

We dont have any plans to be part of somalia, what makes you think we want to be part of ethiopia?

As for choosing between some seriously messed up misguided souls called al-shabab, and the career criminal warlords, I think Al-Shabab and their medieval methods are better. Because the criminals dont ever plan to go paradise so have no intention of ever doing good, but Al-Shabab's goals are to go paradise so they have to score high on the good points..

I see even Somaliland is pro-Shabaab.

[Twisted_Logic]

Abdi-qaybdid and Indocade are basically the last surviving warlords in Mogadishu. To say that warlordism exists in Somalia, at least in the traditional form, is utterly simplistic.

Again, not the first time you have taken political positions based on the clan dynamics

Abdi Qaybdiid and Indhocade are nobodies. Abdi Qaybdiid was kept from being irrelavent by Abdullahi Yusuf and Indhocade has been breastfed and weaned by Xassan Dahir until he recently disobeyed and was accepted into the TFG because news of successful defections from the opposition was what the TFG wanted at that time. To say Warlordism in traditional sense did not exist in Somalia is actually something I agree with because warlords in traditional sense are governors of regions and effectively rule, Abdullahi Yusuf and Riyaale are warlords in this case, but the ones in Mogadishu are beautified by calling them warlords. The mad max world they presided over needs a more appropriate political situation labeling than just "warlordism".

Which takes back to our initial argument between me and AW252, what constitutes as warlordism? It is true that some warlords were nastier than others, but who determines what is nasty and what is not? Personally, the warlords in Somalia were all gang-leaders, it just happens that Mogaishu-based warlords were more destructive because the city offered many incentives for successful exploitation. This however, doesn't make them any worse than other warlords in the country.

As for Abdullahi Yusuf and Riyaale, I actually agree with you. They are the only two Somali warlords who come close to matching the text-book definition of a warlord.

[AbdiWahab252]

The common age for the ProShababis are under 25. The young are easily fooled and swayed to support revolution because they believe they can actually change the world

[Voltage]

Shirib, the groups resisting the Al Shabaab/Xisbul Islam are

1. TFG
--1. TFG-professionals
--2. TFG-warlords
--3. TFG-secularists
--4. TFG-traditionalists
--5. TFG-4.5 clan ambitions
2. Ahlu Sunnah
3. Independent warlords
--1. Their clan supporters who could have diametrically opposed strategic objectives.
4. Somali civil society
--1. Clan elders who can be vehicle for warlords
--2. Some anti-warlord groups
--3. Women's groups who can be opposed by traditionalists

et cetc etc

As you said, for the present, there is NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVE because there is nothing that unites those groups and more other than resisting the Al Shabaab/Xisbul Islam. What political future for Somalia can Shiekh Sharif who is still an akhwan by ideology, an Ahlu Sunnah man, a warlord, a clan elder, and Somali woman's activist agree to?

When someone brings forward a viable alternative that has positive implications for the people (in the sense the peace and security they now have is uninterrupted) then one should start contemplating physically resisting Al Shabaab. But what is there to fight for now, the past and 19 years of lawlessness and anarchy?