Northern vs Benaadir Warsangeli

[Highland]

Warsan-star-Muslimah told me once she is Warsangeli.

Isn't it amazing that we have
two Warsangeli clans with the same exact line of lineages.
For instance,

I am of Harti clan, sub-clan: Warsangeli. Sub-sub clan: Cumar, then Geraad Cabdalle. And there is similar abtirsi of the Benaadir Warsangeli, I was told.

There is also Sacad and Saleebaan sub-clans of Biyomaal clan of Merca.
The Ciise clan of D-jibouti and Dirardhabe have a large sub-clan known as Abgaal.

What are your perspectives?

I think we are all related by blood and this major divide of Hawiye and Daarood is an internalized cultural myth that can be easily exploited to our own disadvantage either by politicians and external enemies.

[Jareerboi]

old man abgaal was a player in the north, i think he forgot to use the plastic when shaking the harti females.

warsenglis are wacalo abgaal

[Somaliman50]

Highland, so Cawrmale are Warsangeli? As far as i know, they are Garjante; brothers of Garre.

[Highland]

Abakar, there are two Cawrmales but the majority is Warsangeli as far as I knew since the days of my childhood.

In regards to the topic, my personal theory is that there is definate blood relationship between the two. It's beyond the convention of co-incidence to have the same 1st, second and third ancestral names or abtirsi in Somali terms between two unrelated clans. This is unique case.

Let me share with you this inner belief, though not outwardly professed, of the Northern Warsangeli.


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EPOCH MIGRATION

Gerad Yusuf Dhidhin (Xamar-Gale a.k.a Gerad Hamar Gale 1311–1328) is credited widely as the son of the founder of the Geradship of Warsangeli Sultanate. It's an important epoch of Somali history to which the nonlinear distribution of this chief tribe can be easily traced to its roots. His nick Xamar-Gale came out after he departed to the ancient city of Mogadishu to which his name is derived from. It literally means "Mogadishu-Settler." He is believed to have departed to Mogadishu and established a permanent settlement. His descendents in the region between Middle Shabelle and Benadir zone have preserved the tribal name of their ancestral father but they have completely integrated with Abgal, the main tribe in Mogadishu.

While no written source, references, or official confirmation exists as to the blood relations between the Warsangeli in the North and the South, the two family units have built strong cultural affiliation and enthusiasm for one another. Attempts were made if the two should reunite and reclaim one common origin, but social constraints such that inter-group differentials, hostile environment of political survival and competition and a deeply rooted belief that "one is the other than the latter is the former have been difficult to overcome." It was once agreed in non-official terms that the duo go ahead with a plan to swap rural families and resettle them in their respective territories in order to strengthen relations. The concept was initially proposed and kept alive by this magnate Nur Adane from El-Ma'an, a small and booming port town. Ancestral spirits are evoked by mostly women of both sides to intercede on their behalf against a bad omen. These spiritual words are uttered for intercession: "Awoowgey Warsangeli Caleedow," which roughly means "O grandfather Warsangeli of Cal madow."

Northern vs. Benadir Warsangeli

Political differentials are factors that set apart the Northern Warsangeli from Southern Warsangeli in larger society. The former initially had access to positions of national and regional power such as civil and military service, access to higher education, presence in business and profession and the latter were simply drawn to seek their role within and not outside their traditional association—reflecting the patterned exclusion of some powerful Somali tribes from a fair representation in Somalia's political participation. I.M Lewis, the renown Somali historian, cites in his book "Pastoral Democracy" that the differentials were traceable to Somalia's phases of pre and post-European colonization. For instance, the Darod tribe dominated the politics of Somalia until the Government of Siyad Bare were overthrown by a coalition of rebel fronts made up largely of non-Darod groups in 1991.


References 1. I.M Lewis. "Pastoral Democracy" 1958 2. See "Maakhir" Wikipedia Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xamar-Gale"

[Highland]

old man abgaal was a player in the north, i think he forgot to use the plastic when shaking the harti females.

warsenglis are wacalo abgaal

It's the opposite.

HARTI had many sons.

1. Maxamuud aka Warsangeli
2. Maxamed aka Majerteen
3. Siciid aka Dhulbahante
4. Axmed aka Dishiishle
5. Liibaan aka LiibaanGeshi
6. Cabdiraxmaan aka Kaskiqabe.

[Somaliman50]

No written source, references, or official confirmation exists as to the blood relations between the Warsangeli in the North and the South,

Enough said.

The Abgal know their abtirsi very well, so, questioning the lineage of abgal cisman is an insult to benadir section.

btw, since when was there two cawrmale's? correct me if i am wrong, but you are talking about the cawramale who live in the jubba regions? yes? anyway, i dont want to get into this arguement. if you say you are harti darood, i will give you the benefit of the doubt.

[James Dahl]

That article is a bit off on who is the ancestor. It was Xasan Dhiidiin who was nicknamed Xamargale, Yusuf is his son, and Cumar and Cabdalle, the two brothers of an Abgaal mother, are his half-brothers. Also Yusuf is the progenitor of the Dubeys, who live around Bosaso, and not the main branch of the Warsangeli who trace through the heir of Garaad Xasan Garaad Dhiidiin, his eldest son Garaad Ibrahiim.

It is possible of course that the Warsangeli royal genealogists are incorrect, and it is not the most commonly traced abtiris for Warsangeli Abgaal, so on my site I just have it as an alternative father.

My own theory is the Warsangeli Abgaal got sick of explaining this complicated situation and just started saying "we are Abgaal, end of story"

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Salaam to all,

I don't remember telling you I was Warsangeli But I have a VERY bad memory.

It is very close, I'll give you that, but there is no cabdalle after Cumar. Warsangeli abgaal are split into two lines, one is Cabdalle and the other Cumar. I'm Cabdalle not Cumar.

Maybe a Northern Warsangeli lady married Odey Harti Abgaal, and thats how we came about?

But I agree with you, we are all related somehow.


Sakiin Ma Goydo Geed Salweyn Sagaal Abgaal Cismaan waa sidaa

[Somaliman50]

WSM, you came back

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Thank you Abakarow, although I never left, I took a break from this section because the faraxz as usual were bringing a lot of negativity.

[Twisted_Logic]

That article is a bit off on who is the ancestor. It was Xasan Dhiidiin who was nicknamed Xamargale, Yusuf is his son, and Cumar and Cabdalle, the two brothers of an Abgaal mother, are his half-brothers. Also Yusuf is the progenitor of the Dubeys, who live around Bosaso, and not the main branch of the Warsangeli who trace through the heir of Garaad Xasan Garaad Dhiidiin, his eldest son Garaad Ibrahiim.

It is possible of course that the Warsangeli royal genealogists are incorrect, and it is not the most commonly traced abtiris for Warsangeli Abgaal, so on my site I just have it as an alternative father.

My own theory is the Warsangeli Abgaal got sick of explaining this complicated situation and just started saying "we are Abgaal, end of story"

This is the stupidest thing you have ever said on SNET.

Warsengali Abgaal predates Warsengali Darood. Even numbers proof this. It is wrong to say that Warsengali Abgaal came from Warsengali Darood. It should be the other way around

[James Dahl]

That article is a bit off on who is the ancestor. It was Xasan Dhiidiin who was nicknamed Xamargale, Yusuf is his son, and Cumar and Cabdalle, the two brothers of an Abgaal mother, are his half-brothers. Also Yusuf is the progenitor of the Dubeys, who live around Bosaso, and not the main branch of the Warsangeli who trace through the heir of Garaad Xasan Garaad Dhiidiin, his eldest son Garaad Ibrahiim.

It is possible of course that the Warsangeli royal genealogists are incorrect, and it is not the most commonly traced abtiris for Warsangeli Abgaal, so on my site I just have it as an alternative father.

My own theory is the Warsangeli Abgaal got sick of explaining this complicated situation and just started saying "we are Abgaal, end of story"

This is the stupidest thing you have ever said on SNET.

Warsengali Abgaal predates Warsengali Darood. Even numbers proof this. It is wrong to say that Warsengali Abgaal came from Warsengali Darood. It should be the other way around

I'm pretty sure I've said dumber things

According to Warsangeli history, Garaad Dhidhin reigned from 1298 to 1311, or very roughly about 22 generations ago. This is roughly the same number of generations to Abgaal Cismaan, who also lived about 22 generations ago.

[Twisted_Logic]

That article is a bit off on who is the ancestor. It was Xasan Dhiidiin who was nicknamed Xamargale, Yusuf is his son, and Cumar and Cabdalle, the two brothers of an Abgaal mother, are his half-brothers. Also Yusuf is the progenitor of the Dubeys, who live around Bosaso, and not the main branch of the Warsangeli who trace through the heir of Garaad Xasan Garaad Dhiidiin, his eldest son Garaad Ibrahiim.

It is possible of course that the Warsangeli royal genealogists are incorrect, and it is not the most commonly traced abtiris for Warsangeli Abgaal, so on my site I just have it as an alternative father.

My own theory is the Warsangeli Abgaal got sick of explaining this complicated situation and just started saying "we are Abgaal, end of story"

This is the stupidest thing you have ever said on SNET.

Warsengali Abgaal predates Warsengali Darood. Even numbers proof this. It is wrong to say that Warsengali Abgaal came from Warsengali Darood. It should be the other way around

I'm pretty sure I've said dumber things

According to Warsangeli history, Garaad Dhidhin reigned from 1298 to 1311, or very roughly about 22 generations ago. This is roughly the same number of generations to Abgaal Cismaan, who also lived about 22 generations ago.

It is clan history, of course they are gonna claim a long line

But facts are different..very different. It is important to study history from an analytical angel and less from a mythic-ally constructed angle where every clan claims all sorts of foolish things.

[James Dahl]

Studying history isn't like studying plants, rocks or galaxies. History is made up of a series of inherently biased chronicles and traditions, and the job of the historian is to attempt to decipher an unbiased timeline of events from a variety of sources. Due to the very nature of history, it is a flawed science, and the historian must simply muddle his way through.

For instance I know of no birth certificate issued in the 14th century, so the exact relationship between Garaad Dhidhin and Abgaal Cismaan to Warsangeli Harti Abgaal will remain something of a mystery with two contradictory traditions. Is there an unnamed daughter of Garaad Dhidhin, and the proper name is Habar Warsangeli, the Habar being dropped, like Habar Majerteen, to just Warsangeli Abgaal? Is Harti really Bah Harti, implying a Harti wife of Abgaal Cismaan? Identifying a Harti wife of Abgaal Cismaan and a Warsangeli Mother of the two Warsangeli Abgaal brothers would be facts that would support the hypothesis that Warsangeli Abgaal are patrilinearily Abgaal.

This would actually make more sense, in terms of the Abtiris, than Harti Abgaal being a construction, but where are the facts? This is the problem, the information, if it exists, is extremely obscure.

[Highland]

Twisted-Logic, the royal genealogists of Warsangeli goes up to 28 now. It's the longest royal line with the exception of Majeerteen, which goes up to 29.

I think James' hypothesis of Habar dropping will make a lot of sense.

This is not to disrespect Abgaal(Hawiye) and Warsangeli(Daarood) but to explore the subject further.



I trace Daarood up to 34 lineages.


Btw, I heard of this amusing story where a Nomad Warsangeli-Abgaal man watering his camels from a borehole in Mahadaay was stabbed in the back following a water dispute. Another man saw the stabbed man scream with pain and he called for an avenge and help.

"Ar yaa Cumara, Aryaa Cabdalla, Ar Ceelkii Ciyaa ka yeereysee"

"O my tribesmen of Omar and Abdalla, run to help. I hear cries of pain at the borehole"

In few mins, his clansmen came in droves armed with poisoned spears. They avenged and took their wounded man.
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Warsan Star, ever heard of "Awoowgey Warsangeli Caleedoow"

Cal is in Sanaag and Bari.