Somali identity cards

[RuralMan08]

A concession it was not.

Which side of the straw do you want to pick on?

Haye, niyadaada waan ku diseyaa. The glass is half full

[rosyspecs]

What of the case of the European Jews that identify themselves as Jewish despite not passing the litmus test of 'jewishness' in having a jewish mother.
A person should be able to identify themselves as Somali if that's their roots despite not fiting in with the mould of the patriachal clan system. This is getting ridiculous and is purely a case of petty semantics.

I agree with Rural Man, Somalis are pure and native foreigners

Not sure what you mean by pure, because we obviously have interbred with other nations

First of all its quite a shame that you mention the tradition of European Jews. However me being fair and equitable I shall answer this and give you the main reason concerning "Jewishness". In reagards to Jewish history, the Children of Israel are a patriarchal society simply because the nation descends from the twelve sons of Prophet Yacquub (AS), thats No.1.

Secondly, European Jewry was always a fragmented society, they had no land, they were persecuted, always were a minority. The practice of regarding Jewishness through the mother was introduced by European Rabbis in the 19th century. This was because the only way the Jews saw fit to survive in a hostile environment was to marry off their women to big political figures in Europe, a case example of this is the wife of Tony Blair is herself jewish and many more, even Rageah Omaar's wife is of Jewish origin. Thus those children are seen to be halachich which means in Hebrew "fit" to have a Jewish identity. However, you bringing up this case and comparing it with Somali tribal politics is silly and futile. There is no corresponding similarities between us and the condition of European Jewry was completely in contrast with the Somalis.

In Somali and Arab culture, identity through the women is shambles. It would increase promiscuity and evil. Allah mentions in Surah al Ahzab: "And call them by their fathers' names".
In the Qur'anic Law, Walaashiis would never be considered Somali. Let us stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Thirdly in regards to us "obviously" interbreeding with other nations, can you give me an example of one nation we have interbred with?

Firstly I only brought up the examples of the European Jews to highlight that identity is way more than just a pre-set framework. Walaashiis identifies herself as a Somali despite not technically having a tribe according to Somali accepted standards, this runs parallel with the situation of the European Jews who despite not being textbook Jews identify themselves as such and hence I found it a pertinent example to put forth.

Secondly no one is advocating for a matriachal system, I don't know where you got that from. All I am saying is that the Somali identity is way more complex and intricate then merely a whole debate of 'clan vs sans clan'.

Thirdly Somalis have bred with many including the Arabs.

[Advo]

I disprove!!! only issaqs should carry the legal qabiil papers as we know one of them is worth 7 regular somali life excluding the habar lovers (their rights have been revoked for their ungodly love of senior citizen women).

[abdalla11]

I haven't read all the comments but i do agree with Rural Samaroon that we should adopt a system wherein the qabiil should be the last name

[RuralMan08]

Firstly I only brought up the examples of the European Jews to highlight that identity is way more than just a pre-set framework. Walaashiis identifies herself as a Somali despite not technically having a tribe according to Somali accepted standards, this runs parallel with the situation of the European Jews who despite not being textbook Jews identify themselves as such and hence I found it a pertinent example to put forth.

Secondly no one is advocating for a matriachal system, I don't know where you got that from. All I am saying is that the Somali identity is way more complex and intricate then merely a whole debate of 'clan vs sans clan'.

Thirdly Somalis have bred with many including the Arabs.

Firstly, you need to understand that the primary METHOD of identity in Somali CULTURE is through the clan. Until you understnad that your argument will not hold ground. Basically to simplify it for you. Somali identity = Clan and Clan = Somali identity. Its that simple of an equation. We are not using any other nation's as a criteria for identity because we as Somalis have our own criteria. Its like you arguing, why doesn't Soccer have a touch down rule or basketball have an offside rule. Its simpky because each sport has its own rules and meets its own criteria. Same with Somali identity. It was always the clan and it will always be the clan.

Secondly, you are saying that Somalis have bred with many including Arabs. I do not deny that. If they have a Somali father then they have the identity of a Somali. If not, then they are neo quasi Somali. My argument is not regarding how much blood I have from different ancestors, my argument is concerning the rules and reguations of Somali identity which you just dont seem to understand. You can never be Somali because of the clan system, just like I can never be Jewish because Idont have a Jewish mother, regardless of whether I speak Hebrew or observe the Sabbath

[rosyspecs]

I disprove!!! only issaqs should carry the legal qabiil papers as we know one of them is worth 7 regular somali life excluding the habar lovers (their rights have been revoked for their ungodly love of senior citizen women).

[RuralMan08]

I haven't read all the comments but i do agree with Rural Samaroon that we should adopt a system wherein the qabiil should be the last name

You should be Abdalla al Majeertenaawi and I Rural al Samarooni al Gadabursaawi

[abdalla11]

Qabil plays a vital role in our community, so there's no need to hide it. The arabs are qabilisteyaal too but they found a solution for that problem by making the qabiil a surname

[rosyspecs]

Firstly I only brought up the examples of the European Jews to highlight that identity is way more than just a pre-set framework. Walaashiis identifies herself as a Somali despite not technically having a tribe according to Somali accepted standards, this runs parallel with the situation of the European Jews who despite not being textbook Jews identify themselves as such and hence I found it a pertinent example to put forth.

Secondly no one is advocating for a matriachal system, I don't know where you got that from. All I am saying is that the Somali identity is way more complex and intricate then merely a whole debate of 'clan vs sans clan'.

Thirdly Somalis have bred with many including the Arabs.

Firstly, you need to understand that the primary METHOD of identity in Somali CULTURE is through the clan. Until you understnad that your argument will not hold ground. Basically to simplify it for you. Somali identity = Clan and Clan = Somali identity. Its that simple of an equation. We are not using any other nation's as a criteria for identity because we as Somalis have our own criteria. Its like you arguing, why doesn't Soccer have a touch down rule or basketball have an offside rule. Its simpky because each sport has its own rules and meets its own criteria. Same with Somali identity. It was always the clan and it will always be the clan.

Secondly, you are saying that Somalis have bred with many including Arabs. I do not deny that. If they have a Somali father then they have the identity of a Somali. If not, then they are neo quasi Somali. My argument is not regarding how much blood I have from different ancestors, my argument is concerning the rules and reguations of Somali identity which you just dont seem to understand. You can never be Somali because of the clan system, just like I can never be Jewish because Idont have a Jewish mother, regardless of whether I speak Hebrew or observe the Sabbath

OK this argument is going around in circles! The bottom line is you obviously have a different perspective than me on what constitutes identity, case closed.

But your opinion alone doesn't discount my somalinimo, I am somali whether you like it or not

[RuralMan08]

Qabil plays a vital role in our community, so there's no need to hide it. The arabs are qabilisteyaal too but they found a solution for that problem by making the qabiil a surname

Absolutely we must embrace it and use it for the good. This is very important. Clan I.D cards should be the next step inshallah.


I must depart for now, I shall see everyone later on!

[RuralMan08]

OK this argument is going around in circles! The bottom line is you obviously have a different perspective than me on what constitutes identity, case closed.

But your opinion alone doesn't discount my somalinimo, I am somali whether you like it or not

Quick correction: You have a different perspective not only from me but from the mainstream Somali view on identity.

Having said that, your process of Somalinimo has been terminated.

Good day

[Walaashiis]

Qabil plays a vital role in our community, so there's no need to hide it. The arabs are qabilisteyaal too but they found a solution for that problem by making the qabiil a surname

Absolutely we must embrace it and use it for the good. This is very important. Clan I.D cards should be the next step inshallah.


I must depart for now, I shall see everyone later on!

I have not been able to follow the discussion but I still remain convinced to be Somali. I welcomes myself in my mother's womb. I arrived the World with my edentity in my hands

[Advo]

I disprove!!! only issaqs should carry the legal qabiil papers as we know one of them is worth 7 regular somali life excluding the habar lovers (their rights have been revoked for their ungodly love of senior citizen women).

whats ur breast size?

[RuralMan08]

I have not been able to follow the discussion but I still remain convinced to be Somali. I welcomes myself in my mother's womb. I arrived the World with my edentity in my hands

Didnt I just refute you naayaa

Good day baan ku idhi!

P.S You are the main reason why Somali I.D cards are required.


Macasalaama!

[RuralMan08]

whats ur breast size?

That question will not be on the I.D cards.

Bye