James Dahl, please do get in!

[bareento]

Hello Brother James!

How is your theory on the horn baboons ?
Wat about your Erer Theory, the link between Borana and the Boons.

Lately I became adept of one of your many theories : the North to South migration!
Have you ever heard of a sultan of the current north somalia known as Haajji Tarree?

Unfortunately, I couldnt yet find any confirming data for my Bantu theory!
But I am still persuaded horners are closer to Bantus than to the filthy arab rapers!

Please shed your enlightening opinion!
Share your discoveries or knowledge on the north to south migration!
I am convinced some oromo clans participated in that migration too.

Respectfully

B.

[gurey25]

why are you obsessed with the Bantu

they are our African brothers and beautifully as well, but sadly they are not close to us genetically.

and the north to south theory has strong support from genetic studies as the ancestors of the oromo and somali came from northern sudan and migrated down to southern ethiopia by 2000 BC...
Dr megalomattis who is a crazy old kook also does a good job in mapping out this migration down the blue nile using what little that has been deciphered from archeology and linguistics.

the arabs are as far from us genetically as your beloved bantus, but if you want to associate with fellow africans i suggest you look at the people of darfur the fur/masalit

they may look very "African" as in dark skin wide "bantu" noses and crinkly bantu hair, but surprisingly they are a very very close match to the borana and somali..
both of us m78 e-v32...


but then again i am assuming that you are a pure oromo which is more difficult to find than a pure somali due to your tradition of assimilating other people "borg" style..

who knows your ancestors could very well be arab or even nilotic jambela for all i know..

[bareento]

Greetings Professor Gurey, I like you comparing us to borg!
hmm u yourself being a somalized arab, i dont mind being an oromo-ized somali/nilotic/habashi


For the time being, I live as it is my pet theory on Bantus!

I suspect u are from the north, do u know of any serious history book about the history of north somalia?
Any somali migration from those areas to the south?

Most theories state Noolee emigrated toward harerge from some parts of North somalia...which is very unlikely!
But I heard of a new theory of oromos along somalis migrating south , thats in the past 3 to 4 century;
Some lowland arsi tribes are believed to live in the cureent North ogadenia/north somalia;

I am looking for serious history books, not mumbo jumbo like somali genealogy

B.

[gurey25]

Bareento i dont think there was any north south migration this is a recent event as most dir and hawiye and darood clans originated in the north.

The north to south migration i was talking about was the one our ancestors both of the somali and oromo took from northern sudan down to the tana valley..

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/166451
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/150315

[Mckuus]

I refuse to believe that bareento is a real Oromo. His obsession with the Bantus is HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS.

I am pretty sure he's a troll with an agenda. Oromos are completely unrelated to Bantus, bareento is so stupid it makes me cringe reading any of his posts.

[bareento]

Bareento i dont think there was any north south migration this is a recent event as most dir and hawiye and darood clans originated in the north.

The north to south migration i was talking about was the one our ancestors both of the somali and oromo took from northern sudan down to the tana valley..

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/166451
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/150315

Thank you Gurey!
If they are from the north when did they migrated to the south? 4 ,5 centuries ago? or much later?

B.

[bareento]

I refuse to believe that bareento is a real Oromo. His obsession with the Bantus is HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS.

I am pretty sure he's a troll with an agenda. Oromos are completely unrelated to Bantus, bareento is so stupid it makes me cringe reading any of his posts.

McKuus its u who is obsessed with Bantu!
I use the word Bantu in a particular sens I define, its too long to state it here!

Bantu does not necessarly equate the exotic, neverthless funny and noble tribes of the south

B.

[James Dahl]

Horn Africans are neither Arabs nor Bantus, but a distinct people.

I've never heard of a sultan named Haajji Tarree, what do you know of him?

There are several migrations, one in ancient times from north to south, then another south to north just before the arrival of Islam due to the expansion of camel domestication, then a third of some clans (Darood, Dir and Hawiye) migrating south again conquering the southern clans.

[bareento]

Many thanks James,

When was approximatively the third migration?

And wat about your Erer theory, have u discarded it?

B.

[James Dahl]

I haven't discarded it, but Irir or Erer was probably a relatively common name at one time, similarity of names is not a reliable method of comparison. For instance Borana lineages start with Saamaalo son of Borana, but that doesn't mean Samaale is also a son of Borana. Samaale/Saamaalo or Irir/Erer were probably not uncommon names.

In fact there's another Irir in Digil genealogies for instance.

3rd migration started with the fall of the Ajuuraan empire around 1600 and ended with British colonialism in the Jubba and Tana Valleys in the 1880s.

[kadarre]

Since when does an Oromo feel close to Bantu? The term Bantu is superficial. Show me one person that calls himself Bantu that is living in Africa.

[bareento]

Kadarre, only somalis have strong hate of Bantus

For any other africans the Bantu-Proper (not in the sens I give to this term) are just fellow negro africans

B.

[Mckuus]

Since when does a Oromo feel close to Bantu? The term Bantu is superficial. Show me one person that calls himself Bantu that is living in Africa.

Oromos and Somalis have nothing in common with them, but Bareento aka Beenloow is misusing the word, but what can you expect from a troll like him.

[bareento]

James, I was lately hearing that there were also north to south migration of some oromo clans.

Some of these are pure speculation as the one stating the Ormas used to live far upnorth!
But others stating that the some lowland arsi tribes used to live upnorth and migrated south over centuries seem plausible!
Sultaan Tarre is believed to be from one of these clans!

B.

[James Dahl]

Somalis and Oromos have a long, long history together. One of Hawiye's wives Giireey was an Oromo and Hawiye probably lived around the year 800 or so, his other wife was a Harari.

The current story about Oromos arriving in the 16th century is rubbish, Oromos, Somalis and Hararis have all been in contact with each other for at least 1200 years.

I think the belief about Oromos arriving in the 16th century is that the two confederations (Barentu and Borana) were originally in the south, and then moved north and absorbed everyone who is today part of the Oromo nation, and that the vast majority of Oromo clans have been re-organized into the two Oromo confederations and their original origins are either now obscure or confused. We know that for instance Hawiye is organized into the Barentu confederation, despite the fact that we know that Hawiye are not Oromo and predate the Barentu confederation by many centuries.

It's essentially the concept of Sheegaad (client/patron protection) on a massive scale. Rendiile do the same thing, so I guess originally, before Islam, this was the way the lowlanders of the Horn organized themselves politically, and survives within the Sheegaad system, even though it has largely been replaced amongst the Somalis by the Arab lineage-based clan system.

Strangely the confederation system still exists amongst the Afar, though I believe that the Afar became Muslims after the Somali did.

While rather controversial to talk about, the major clans in Somalia may have began as confederations before gradually changing to the Arab style clan system, though that's basically an "argument in a can", as soon as you open it, expect arguments