Ive explained my case, and you seem to have evaded much of my arguments. But anyway we agree to disagreeVoltage wrote:Somalis are an overwhelming Shafici society and in any case what differences in Madhabs exist for you to call Shafici and Hanbali a "sect". A "sect' is a group that has inherently different theological and ecclesiastical positions. Saying Somalia is a Muslim state, doesn't mean the government is going to choose how you hold your hands in prayer based on what madhab you follow.I think your problem is you are lacking knowledge of Islam in general.
I'm afraid your reasoning for secularism are not much of reasons especially as it relates to difference of Muslims to practice within their own school of thoughts, which I remind you again are not based on different theological positions but in fact are carbon copy of each other. Also your understanding of the term "Sharia" begs much to be desired. Sharia is not a "thing". Sharia is an overarching traditions and rulings and consensus on Islam from the time of the prophet or now. It's comparison in English is "law", and in Islam is translate the way. Sharia is not a specific law, Sharia is law. It is a recording of centuries of arguments and precedents on multi-faceted number of subjects. For example, giving agreeing with the family about dowry and paying that dowry is "Sharia". Having Friday as the off day for rest and relaxation is "Sharia". Not eating pork is "Sharia". Even the customary Somali law where a killer is asked for blood money or put to the sword is "Sharia". Sharia is already very much part of Somali cultural and traditional law so in a situation where the laws of the country will be formulated they should reflect the values and customs of Somalis which is already Sharia-complaint. Your secularism analysis really has no legs to stand on.
Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
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- Coeus
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Voltage wrote:Secularism means you have removed the power of Allah (swt) to be your central master. The essence of being a Muslims is accepting you are a slave, a servant to Allah (swt) who is your master. Among the essence of Iman is accepting that your master Allah (swt) has the right to give you both good and bad will because it is Allah's supreme right over you, his slave.Coeus wrote:Secularism is the way to peace,stability and development!
Secularism means you, the slave, have decided Allah (swt) is not your master who has supreme right over you to design your way of life which in effect means you have ceased being a Muslim.
To the closet agnostics/athiests, it is an understandable position for them to accept the stature of this disobedience against Allah (swt), but I want to understand if you do? That this is not a game.
- Coeus
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
No bro, re read again you misunderstoodAhmedBoqor wrote:What are you talking about sxb? are you telling me just because some other Muslim countries decided to limit their Islamic laws because of "differences in mazhabs" is that we should follow suit? if you need examples, look no further than the early Khilafahs, I wouldn't even consider the ottomans to be the best example of Islamic state governed by Islamic laws but even that was better than what some Muslims countries have.Coeus wrote:So saxiib
Conclusion
1. Secularism limits religion is a sweeping statement. There are many types of secularism.
2. Any Islamic state, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (and maybe Malaysia in future) limits Islam itself by enforcing ruling from certain Mazhabs only on all Muslims regardless of their mazhabs affiliation.
3. The claim that Shariah Law is to cater the needs of Muslims is therefore FALSE. The existing Shariah Law, or more appropriately should be call Syafi'e Law, will only cater the needs of Muslims from the Syafi'e sect while discriminating other Muslims from different Mazhabs.
4. In comparison between Sweden and the present Malaysia, the secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims compared to Malaysia.
5. Since secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims from different mazhabs compare to Malaysia, which is more Islamic in nature? Malaysia or Sweden?
- Voltage
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
I have "evaded" your bullet points I categorically dismissed? Your argument was basically someone saying because there is the possibility of Democrats and Republicans disagree on the American constitutions let us dismiss the constitution altogether. How does that work and mind you "madhabs" again are not sects and do not have differing theological positions.
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AhmedBoqor
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Nope, didn't spot anything enlightening.Coeus wrote:No bro, re read again you misunderstoodAhmedBoqor wrote:What are you talking about sxb? are you telling me just because some other Muslim countries decided to limit their Islamic laws because of "differences in mazhabs" is that we should follow suit? if you need examples, look no further than the early Khilafahs, I wouldn't even consider the ottomans to be the best example of Islamic state governed by Islamic laws but even that was better than what some Muslims countries have.Coeus wrote:So saxiib
Conclusion
1. Secularism limits religion is a sweeping statement. There are many types of secularism.
2. Any Islamic state, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (and maybe Malaysia in future) limits Islam itself by enforcing ruling from certain Mazhabs only on all Muslims regardless of their mazhabs affiliation.
3. The claim that Shariah Law is to cater the needs of Muslims is therefore FALSE. The existing Shariah Law, or more appropriately should be call Syafi'e Law, will only cater the needs of Muslims from the Syafi'e sect while discriminating other Muslims from different Mazhabs.
4. In comparison between Sweden and the present Malaysia, the secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims compared to Malaysia.
5. Since secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims from different mazhabs compare to Malaysia, which is more Islamic in nature? Malaysia or Sweden?
- ZubeirAwal
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Somali's should rule in according to Allahs law, you saw what happened when barre tried to imply his own secularist rule instead of an islamic one, and how the well known 10 culima were executed,the great sheikh ,Sheikh Abdul-Hamid Kishk, said "When those 10 scholars were executed,the heaven was open for ten days for the ones who stand up for them",in history lies the answer!.
The execution of those 10 sheikhs could be the reason why Somalia's in the state it's in today,learn from old mistakes and imply Ilaahi's rule .
The execution of those 10 sheikhs could be the reason why Somalia's in the state it's in today,learn from old mistakes and imply Ilaahi's rule .
Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
What Somalia needs right now is a revolutionary leader to gut the nation of all the cockroaches. Melo will be executed and Voltage will spend a long time in a reeducation camp. Dr. Yaxaloow will become Minister of Religious Affairs and Roving Chief of Police. What a great nation we would be. 
- Coeus
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Ok my last Post before i end my Arguments, since we arent going nowhere. We all have obviusly our own views, but lets respect eachother.
My opinion is that living in a secular environment gives muslims the choice of living as a mukmin on their own accord and choice, which by the way, is a great gift to humans by Allah.
Isn't this the real quest (jihad) and challenge for all muslims?
Ulamas & Sheikhs, when given political mandate, tend to blind us with their dogma. So-called religious laws implemented are one-sided and without recourse or challenge. Religious scriptures are distorted or literally interpreted for total political control.
Transparency would be non-existent, nepotism would be rife, human rights would be worse that what it already is; in other words, a recipe for disaster for all Somalis.
Ulamas & Sheikhs have a place in society, but not to govern in political matters.
Our country needs democratically elected, passionate and intelligent law makers, of laws that apply equally to all.
Muslims don't need a Sharia court that totaly disregards basic human rights, children's rights, women's rights, disabled persons rights. Name just one muslim country in the world where individual rights have not been severely violated by barbaric and literal interpretation and application of the "muslim" law?
Let Allah be the judge for spiritual transgressions, not the Shariah court. Let the secular courts judge us on secular and worldly issues.Secularism for me, secularism for my children, secularism for the future of all Somalis.
My opinion is that living in a secular environment gives muslims the choice of living as a mukmin on their own accord and choice, which by the way, is a great gift to humans by Allah.
Isn't this the real quest (jihad) and challenge for all muslims?
Ulamas & Sheikhs, when given political mandate, tend to blind us with their dogma. So-called religious laws implemented are one-sided and without recourse or challenge. Religious scriptures are distorted or literally interpreted for total political control.
Transparency would be non-existent, nepotism would be rife, human rights would be worse that what it already is; in other words, a recipe for disaster for all Somalis.
Ulamas & Sheikhs have a place in society, but not to govern in political matters.
Our country needs democratically elected, passionate and intelligent law makers, of laws that apply equally to all.
Muslims don't need a Sharia court that totaly disregards basic human rights, children's rights, women's rights, disabled persons rights. Name just one muslim country in the world where individual rights have not been severely violated by barbaric and literal interpretation and application of the "muslim" law?
Let Allah be the judge for spiritual transgressions, not the Shariah court. Let the secular courts judge us on secular and worldly issues.Secularism for me, secularism for my children, secularism for the future of all Somalis.
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AhmedBoqor
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
union wrote:What Somalia needs right now is a revolutionary leader to gut the nation of all the cockroaches. Melo will be executed and Voltage will spend a long time in a reeducation camp. Dr. Yaxaloow will become Minister of Religious Affairs and Roving Chief of Police. What a great nation we would be.

Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
AbdiWahab252 wrote:Union,
Melo is the kind of character who needs to be placed in reeducation camps. In Galmudug, we have an IKHWAN TRACKING SYSTEM (ITS) that is used to monitor the 20 ikhwans here. Their daily movements are logged, the Masjid monitored and along with their visitors. Once in a while, we have an Ikhwan ass kicking day (its good for one's Iman).
Adeer, you are one funny character. Inshallah, if I'm in Gaalkacyo one day, ill try to find you.
- AbdiWahab252
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Melo,
Adeer, you can find me at the Cabdallah iyo Cawareere Masjid. You are a good lad even though you support Ikhwanism.
I still am amazed you support Tahir Aweys, a known enemy of Beesha.
Adeer, you can find me at the Cabdallah iyo Cawareere Masjid. You are a good lad even though you support Ikhwanism.
I still am amazed you support Tahir Aweys, a known enemy of Beesha.
Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
AbdiWahab252 wrote:Melo,
Adeer, you can find me at the Cabdallah iyo Cawareere Masjid. You are a good lad even though you support Ikhwanism.
I still am amazed you support Tahir Aweys, a known enemy of Beesha.
Honestly, i am not the die hard Aweys supporter that you think. I just over did it to annoy people on this forum. I think the Sheikh has made some horrible mistakes in recent years. It's just that he is an old old friend of the family, and was one of the few people who wasn't brought down by the Qabiil syndrome. This is why I have some respect to him. However his decision making in recent years has been sub-par. He needs to take a good look in the mirror, and answer why he is always on the losing side of the equation. The time for fighting in Somalia is over, and inshallah he realises this very soon. But like i said, i cannot wish bad upon someone that we know very well.
Morally speaking, i can't justifying supporting tolka because they are related to me. In fact, this is what ruined Somalia. Everyone supported their tol, even in spite of the crimes they were committing. I fully support Caydiid's war of liberation against MSB, but his activities later on were not worthy of support.
I also cannot support secularism, because it goes against the Quran, Sunnah, and ijmaac of the 4 madhabs. This has nothing to do with ikhwaanism. I can produce to you sufi sheikhs today who say that Secularism is another diin altogether. I can understand why people gravitate towards secularism, but understand that if Allah SWT is not happy with you, then all material success will be of no avail. Please reflect on that adeer. Perhaps pick up the Fiqhi books of our great Shaafici culemaa. People like Ibn hajr al-asqalni, Imaam ghazali, Imaam Nawawi, Imaam Suyuti etc. Inshallah you will realize that being anti secular is not an Ikhwaani invasion, but is in fact Islamic. I wish for both material and spiritual success for beesha, and i believe that Islam- suufi, salafi, whatever is the solution, and not secularism.
- AbdiWahab252
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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Melo,
Anyways, Adeer, good days lie ahead. We must return to the glory days of GS (Governo Sacad).
Are you rer Ciise ?
Anyways, Adeer, good days lie ahead. We must return to the glory days of GS (Governo Sacad).
Are you rer Ciise ?
Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
AbdiWahab252 wrote:Melo,
Anyways, Adeer, good days lie ahead. We must return to the glory days of GS (Governo Sacad).
Are you rer Ciise ?
Yep. Do you know who i am?
I will be back in Wembley next August Inshallah. If you come over to London next year, give me a shout.
- abdikarim86
- SomaliNet Super

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Re: Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years
Voltage wrote:Somalis are an overwhelming Shafici society and in any case what differences in Madhabs exist for you to call Shafici and Hanbali a "sect". A "sect' is a group that has inherently different theological and ecclesiastical positions. Saying Somalia is a Muslim state, doesn't mean the government is going to choose how you hold your hands in prayer based on what madhab you follow.I think your problem is you are lacking knowledge of Islam in general.
I'm afraid your reasoning for secularism are not much of reasons especially as it relates to difference of Muslims to practice within their own school of thoughts, which I remind you again are not based on different theological positions but in fact are carbon copy of each other. Also your understanding of the term "Sharia" begs much to be desired. Sharia is not a "thing". Sharia is an overarching traditions and rulings and consensus on Islam from the time of the prophet to now. Its comparison in English is "law", and in Islam is translate the way. Sharia is not a specific law, Sharia is law. It is a recording of centuries of arguments and precedents on multi-faceted number of subjects. For example, giving agreeing with the family about dowry and paying that dowry is "Sharia". Having Friday as the off day for rest and relaxation is "Sharia". Not eating pork is "Sharia". Even the customary Somali law where a killer is asked for blood money or put to the sword is "Sharia". Sharia is already very much part of Somali cultural and traditional law so in a situation where the laws of the country will be formulated they should reflect the values and customs of Somalis which is already Sharia-complaint. Your secularism analysis really has no legs to stand on.
Mida kale is it right to assume that the madhabs are not sects because they don't differ on theology but rather law, it's application and implementation?
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