Somalia should embrace communism

[globetrotter2]

Dear Gurey,
Communism did not eradicate agriculture.

Could you give a better 8 years after independence?

European welfare states are based on socialistic mode; a hybrid that is 90 percent communism and 10 percent pragmatic capitalism. Read the history of scandnavia and you'd note that the borders between communism and socialism are blurred

[bareento]

Gurey, in every society there is a class struggle...at least according to the marxist analysis of history!
Only pre historic societies are classless and without class struggle.
The class antagonism takes different shape and Supra class organizations like clan/tribe help to hide it but its there believe me!

Globe, I think if u do not define the enemy u cant fight; defining the enemy as qabilism is simplistic in my opinion.
In my opinion the enemy is the ruling class that uses the qabiil to exploite and divide the masses!
the fight must be between the mass using its ideology against the ruling class and its ideology.
The Somali ruling class is so shrewd and uses its ideology in such an effective way that it has even managed to hide its existence as class from the mass!
Have u ever heard anyone refering to them as ruling class

Identifying the enemy is crucial!

B.

[globetrotter2]

Gurey, in every society there is a class struggle...at least according to the marxist analysis of history!
Only pre historic societies are classless and without class struggle.
The class antagonism takes different shape and Supra class organizationslike clan/tribe help to hide it but its there believe me!

Globe, I think if u do not define the enemy u cant fight, defining the enemy as qabilism is simplistic in my opinion.
In my opinion the enemy is the ruling class that uses the qabiil to exploite and divide the masses!
the fight must the mass using its ideology against the ruling class and its ideology.
The Somali ruling class is so shrewd and uses its ideology in such an effective way that it has even managed to hide its existence as class from the mass!
Have u ever heard anyone refering to them as ruling class

Identifying the enemy is crucial!

B.

I get your point and surely it is a valid point. In my humble opinion it is the god; you think it is the people. I view tribalism as a god; the people are just followers. There is no ruling class in somalia; it is dog eat dog my friend; unfortunately, this god gains acceptance from some religious leaders who always claim a verse from the quran! We need to question the validity of this god; our friend Marx has a sentence that ran " it is an opium to the people"

[bareento]

No doubt the people is good! No doubt qabilism became "the opium of people"...but let us go further and ask : who gives the opium to the people? and for what?


B.

[gurey25]

I object...

I do not consider qabiil the devil...

It is the base of our culture, without qabiil we will not be somali...

I wish to remain a somali

[bareento]

Gurey, I think Globe is focussing on Qabilism as ideology and not Qabiil as entity!
How is your pet theory on interest free Economy is doing are u still convinced that the world can get rid of interest?

From your posts its obvious that u have a clear understanding of Economy and finance...
I think the reason why u adhered to your new theory can best be described by an Oromo saying ...roughly translated us : the one who saw a snake during the day is afraid of ropes during the night

B.

[globetrotter2]

Dear Gurey, there are billions of people that live without qabil!!!!!!! Yeah, that is what you say when qabilism becomes a religion. It is like saying I can't live without islam!

Could you please outline what qabil did for you?


Dear Bareento;

Gurey's "theory" of an interest free economy is not based on science. There is no such thing as interest free; if you have that then you wouldn't have words like growth, development, profit, etc

There is no interest free world; UAE where Gurey lives is an oil economy (there have been some attempts to diversify it). The oil money is invested in funds that generate interest rates; bonds that generate yields (interest rates), real estates that generate rates. Stocks that generate profit (interest rate). When Mr. Gurey buys an appartment or a car, he will pay a price that includes profit (interest rates).

Interest rate is defined as the cost of capital.

Our friend Gurey and for that matter most somalis (who have been fed the religious discourse of interest rates being Haram) confuse interest rates with "usery". The somali word RIBBA (org; arabic) is used to describe both interest ´rates and usery).

The Hawalas (many somalis do not view them as near usery institutions) are the inearest you come to when defining usery.

Interest free economy (both a misnormer and an oxymorgon)


Do you speak Oromo? I love Moyal Gambo !

[Nomand]

communism is dead even china is only a communist by name but a capitalist at heart.

[bareento]

I believe Gurey is just experimenting his new theory on Snet;
he is one of the most well read person on this forum, I am sure he doesnt himself believe in it!

But I would like to know what is his take on exchange rates between currencies...for he knows that exchange rates between two currencies depend directly on their respective interest rates.
How does your theory say about exchange rates brother Gurey?
It touches the point raised by Globe about the Hawaalaa system....

Care to share your wisdom jzk

B.

[gurey25]

salaams..

would love to address all this..
im just out at the moment... i cannot type too much from a mobile device..
my thumbs would hurt.

Its not my pet theory, infact non muslims have been further along the way in this subject than muslims..

[globetrotter2]

Exchange rates depend on the simple theory of economic pricing; supply and demand. Another factor is the balance of payment. If your currency is undervalued (i.e appreciated) like the Yen or the Swiss Frank, and you are an exporting nation, your wage levels will be high; consequently, you are not competitive since the sales of your goods will be deposited in your local curreny to pay wages.

Interest rates level do influence your currency rate in one way; when your industry is competitive, and your interest rate is high capital (read money) is attracted raising demand. Your currency rate rises; equally, if your economic outlook is gloom, investors will not invest in your economy and you have an oversupply of currency, low interest rates (e.g. the US).

That is the free market logic.

However, many countries (developing countries) have tied their currency rates to the dollar or the old form of Bretton W/ or gold feet. This is a risky business as experienced in the begining of the 90s when they were alot of speculators.

Devaluating is common; not appreciation

Like the UAE where Gurey lives there are many countries called petrodollar economies; they have often a constant rate set againt the dollar (since oil is quoted in dollars). The inflow of money exceeds outflow. These countries live in illusion and think that this will be maintained. Unfortunately, the lack of fluctuations mean that they don't attract foreign direct investments and in the end you have a bubble

As regards the Hawala businesses, only the illitrate will claim that there is no interest involved (on the border to usery): Even from an islamic perspective, Hawalas are haram for these reasons;

1. You have a progressive rate; if you send 200 dollars to your old mother in somalia and you send 209 dollars to your grandfather you are charged different ammounts.
2. There are no other goods except currencies


Of course, there are no alternatives to hawalas; it is a neccessity but I have always wondered why the religious leaders don't attack: note that in many countries, the interest rate is haram has caused students not to take student loans; buy a house etc.

[bareento]

Greetings Gurey,

I am eager reading you when u have time to type.
I am confident that as usual u will come with references and all

B.

[bareento]

Greetings Globe,

Thank u for your input on the exchange rates.
Would you please say more on the Hawala business model?
How do they settle their transactions in their account...exchange rate for sure plays a big role in this business!

Thnak u

B.

[Aliyyi Oromada]

Gurey's "theory" of an interest free economy is not based on science. There is no such thing as interest free; if you have that then you wouldn't have words like growth, development, profit, etc

There is no interest free world; UAE where Gurey lives is an oil economy (there have been some attempts to diversify it). The oil money is invested in funds that generate interest rates; bonds that generate yields (interest rates), real estates that generate rates. Stocks that generate profit (interest rate). When Mr. Gurey buys an appartment or a car, he will pay a price that includes profit (interest rates).

Interest rate is defined as the cost of capital.

The only point you have made here is that you don't understand what riba means. For example, you can charge whatever price you want, for any service or item and make any profit you can as long as the price does not change simply due to the time it takes to complete the payment. A person can remain paying off a debt forever because there's no stationary price that they are paying. This is an example of riba. Investment and profits based on supply and demand dont fall under this category.

[bareento]

Aliyyi wat do u call stationnary price?
ar u refering to fixed interest rate and variable interest rates?
In a fixed interest rate case u know right from the beginning how much u will pay at the end!
u are just paying it in different portions spread over long time...and to have this right u have to pay and that is the interest rate.
When a bank gives u the loan, the bank is taking a risk, that is also accounted for in the interest rate.
The bank should pay for its employee and offices etc....that is also accounted for in the interest rate...

In lieu of lending that money to u the bank could invest that money and make more money, whu do u want the bank gives u the money for free????

B.