DR-YALAXOOW

[Addoow]

Addow
now you are temporarily my friend alas the qabil goggles have been removed.

I have always been your friend.

[Nanees]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

Nanees make a good point though. Name one functional and successful Islamic government? The strongest Muslim nation, economically, military and socially is Turkey and Turkey is a secular democracy. As flawed as secularism can be, it does work.

Nanees makes a lot in that post of point which I agree with.

thanks beenaale,

Its because the Muslim PEOPLE are divided, each has a different interpretation of a different hadith. Until there is a trusted leader on the diin, we can have no unified nation based on the diin. The prophet AS laid the ground work for centuries of prosperity in the Islamic empires, but the farther removed we have become from his time the more seeds of doubt and division have spread amongst us. How can any of our endeavors be successful if there is no 'us'?

When the mahdi arrives, these problems will inshaAllah become void, but as for right now I can see no way a group of people who can't even decide if voting is haram can actually maintain a functional/successful government.

[The_Patriot]

Benaale Secularism is the negation of religion in most of the institutions. Somalia was a secularist society and failed and no need to blame Islam on its woes and try to use secularism as its antidote.

Turkey was the capital of the Muslim caliphate and at one time it was the envy of the west it was never colonized meaning its wealth was not plundered by the colonialists.

Its Islam that made muslims great and not Muslims that made Islam great. We left the religion and we brought about the decadence.

[SultanOrder]

My last point is that your whole reasoning falls to the waist when you guys stop looking at the last 200 years as model for why the kafirs(west) gets the dunya and we get hereafter. When the middle east muslims where the most powerful, and richest empires in the world, for over a thousand years (should we go back to empires because its lasted longer and was more successful than what europe has now?), what would be the reason why europe was in abject poverty, constant warfare, and disease wiping out over a thirds of it's population. Did they get the worst of this dunya and also the hell of hereafter? Pretty sour deal if you look at. And all this successful secular democratic countries will they continue to be so? God knows, but I seriously doubt it. And will the muslims rise up economically, I don't know.

Let's not blame God why we are in the mess we are in by saying the Kafirs get this dunya, and we are meant to suffer in this dunya and have jannah because it's "God's fault".

again folks if you just read what I wrote, smh

[Nanees]

My last point is that your whole reasoning falls to the waist when you guys stop looking at the last 200 years as model for why the kafirs(west) gets the dunya and we get hereafter. When the middle east muslims where the most powerful, and richest empires in the world, for over a thousand years (should we go back to empires because its lasted longer and was more successful than what europe has now?), what would be the reason why europe was in abject poverty, constant warfare, and disease wiping out over a thirds of it's population. Did they get the worst of this dunya and also the hell of hereafter? Pretty sour deal if you look at. And all this successful secular democratic countries will they continue to be so? God knows, but I seriously doubt it. And will the muslims rise up economically, I don't know.

Let's not blame God why we are in the mess we are in by saying the Kafirs get this dunya, and we are meant to suffer in this dunya and have jannah because it's "God's fault".

again folks if you just read what I wrote, smh

I don't see why you respond if you don't read. I clearly stated that I don't blame the religion, I blame the religious. I also stated that the prophet and the sahaaba clearly laid the ground work for centuries of prosperity following their passing but we are no way to divided to reach their state of moral clarity and iman.

[Jaidi]

Yes that limited scope of viewpoint is incredibly limiting. Also ignores colonialism and recent historical developments.

For example look at Khaleeji Arabs 60 years ago, when the area was mostly undeveloped desert and the way of life was nomadic, and look at the Khaleej today. How do you account for this using the unbelievers are doing well because they aren't Muslim model?

[SultanOrder]

My last point is that your whole reasoning falls to the waist when you guys stop looking at the last 200 years as model for why the kafirs(west) gets the dunya and we get hereafter. When the middle east muslims where the most powerful, and richest empires in the world, for over a thousand years (should we go back to empires because its lasted longer and was more successful than what europe has now?), what would be the reason why europe was in abject poverty, constant warfare, and disease wiping out over a thirds of it's population. Did they get the worst of this dunya and also the hell of hereafter? Pretty sour deal if you look at. And all this successful secular democratic countries will they continue to be so? God knows, but I seriously doubt it. And will the muslims rise up economically, I don't know.

Let's not blame God why we are in the mess we are in by saying the Kafirs get this dunya, and we are meant to suffer in this dunya and have jannah because it's "God's fault".

again folks if you just read what I wrote, smh

I don't see why you respond if you don't read. I clearly stated that I don't blame the religion, I blame the religious. I also stated that the prophet and the sahaaba clearly laid the ground work for centuries of prosperity following their passing but we are no way to divided to reach their state of moral clarity and iman.

obviously you only read the last part of my statement

[Nanees]

My last point is that your whole reasoning falls to the waist when you guys stop looking at the last 200 years as model for why the kafirs(west) gets the dunya and we get hereafter. When the middle east muslims where the most powerful, and richest empires in the world, for over a thousand years (should we go back to empires because its lasted longer and was more successful than what europe has now?), what would be the reason why europe was in abject poverty, constant warfare, and disease wiping out over a thirds of it's population. Did they get the worst of this dunya and also the hell of hereafter? Pretty sour deal if you look at. And all this successful secular democratic countries will they continue to be so? God knows, but I seriously doubt it. And will the muslims rise up economically, I don't know.

Let's not blame God why we are in the mess we are in by saying the Kafirs get this dunya, and we are meant to suffer in this dunya and have jannah because it's "God's fault".

I don't see why you respond if you don't read. I clearly stated that I don't blame the religion, I blame the religious. I also stated that the prophet and the sahaaba clearly laid the ground work for centuries of prosperity following their passing but we are no way to divided to reach their state of moral clarity and iman.

obviously you only read the last part of my statement

Aboowe you're slightly retarded

[SultanOrder]

hunno ha is wareerirnin

Did Sahaba also put the middle east right in the middle of East and West, where the muslims where smack down in the middle of the silk road, with china and india to the east and europe to the west? Did sahaba also put the framework for europe to find North America, and navigate to the east by traveling below Africa bypassing the middle east?

[Nanees]

hunno ha is wareerirnin

Did Sahaba also put the middle east right in the middle of East and West, where the muslims where smack down in the middle of the silk road, with china and india to the east and europe to the west? Did sahaba also put the framework for europe to find North America, and navigate to the east by traveling below Africa bypassing the middle east?

You sound like your on your period, what does that have to do w. the current lack of islamic governments?

[accident]

hunno ha is wareerirnin

Did Sahaba also put the middle east right in the middle of East and West, where the muslims where smack down in the middle of the silk road, with china and india to the east and europe to the west? Did sahaba also put the framework for europe to find North America, and navigate to the east by traveling below Africa bypassing the middle east?

You sound like your on your period, what does that have to do w. the current lack of islamic governments?

[SultanOrder]

la illaha ilalah, hunno is this how you argue, can't even follow the argument, jumping to insults, insults in an argument are a sign of lack of substance

[Nanees]

la illaha ilalah, hunno is this how you argue, can't even follow the argument, jumping to insults, insults in an argument are a sign of lack of substance

Then answer this question, what do any of your posts have to do with the question at hand, whether or not an islamic government is possible in todays world. If you can prove the relevancy of a single post of yours in the past 2 pages to my original point I'll send you an eid card.

[SultanOrder]

la illaha ilalah, hunno is this how you argue, can't even follow the argument, jumping to insults, insults in an argument are a sign of lack of substance

Then answer this question, what do any of your posts have to do with the question at hand, whether or not an islamic government is possible in todays world. If you can prove the relevancy of a single post of yours in the past 2 pages to my original point I'll send you an eid card.

caqli lay, trying to re-orient the discussion to suit your needs the question at hand wasn't whether or not an islamic government is possible in todays world, but if secularism is the way forward and equals success. Don't patronize me walal

[Colonel]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

Nanees make a good point though. Name one functional and successful Islamic government? The strongest Muslim nation, economically, military and socially is Turkey and Turkey is a secular democracy. As flawed as secularism can be, it does work.

Nanees makes a lot in that post of point which I agree with.

That's because there are NO Islamic governments right now, having Muslims run a country does NOT make that country and Islamic state/government. Most Muslim lands are currently governed by Dictators who try to copy Western Laws as much as possible while claiming that the constitution is based on sharia'a

What is the difference? Muslims follow Islam. Therefore a Muslim government is an Islamic government. Right?

not sure if serious, if he is then absolute fail indeed.

Its because the Muslim PEOPLE are divided, each has a different interpretation of a different hadith. Until there is a trusted leader on the diin, we can have no unified nation based on the diin. The prophet AS laid the ground work for centuries of prosperity in the Islamic empires, but the farther removed we have become from his time the more seeds of doubt and division have spread amongst us. How can any of our endeavors be successful if there is no 'us'?

When the mahdi arrives, these problems will inshaAllah become void, but as for right now I can see no way a group of people who can't even decide if voting is haram can actually maintain a functional/successful government.

You have the mentality of a defeatist, Imam Mahdi was not there for all those centuries which have past yet there was plenty of successful Islamic states, the last was still up about 120 years ago, yes it was as shocking as that sounds. The Muslims have been in this situation of weakness only since the late 1800's, before that we actually had an army who protected our lands.