Shaming Culture......

[Talo alle udaa]

We don't live in an isolated island. what others do will inherently affect us.
there is a saying, "you can swing your arm-but if it ends in my nose we have a problem".

The essence of Islam and the moral creed it propagates is the well being of the entire community-- It's not an individual enterprise. This means, smoking out doors, drinking beer in the open, all inherently affect the community because you are propagating a lifestyle, that is contrary to the well-being of society.

Today, smoking is prohibited in many places in the U.S. because of the known effects of second hand smoke. Those who propagate lewd acts in the open in the name of personal freedom are in the same fashion "sharing" their toxic behavior to humanity.

To stay quiet about it or not care would mean you are "Ok" with those acts.

This is what's inherently wrong with those who believe they an do as they wish, and have freedom of action. the reality is most of the time you cannot.

Individualism should be promoted in light of the belief in the power of the human being to overcome challenges, the advancement of societies for the better- not as a mean of dismantling the ethos with which our societies are built on.

[gedo_gurl]

One man, you're right. Especially the last part about the bad catching up with you!

Daadi, All I wanted to know was the bottom line (yours) because people interpret things differently. Thanks for the clarification. I dont see Islamic law overtaking any laws any time in the near future but I have nothing against it.

LOL Thug. The Somali guys I knew growing up did not care about dating as long as it was kept in the family (Somali) LOL

Talo, great name and very good advice

[Thuganomics]

LOL Thug. The Somali guys I knew growing up did not care about dating as long as it was kept in the family (Somali) LOL

Dagkeenu waa comedians I swear.

[FarhanYare]

freedom of choice lakiin if i had kids and she was a next door naighbour then that could be a big problem. I dont want her influencing her choices on my kids, other than that i dont really care

[FarhanYare]

gedogirl,
tell us, what would you do?

[gedo_gurl]

Throughout my life I've had pretty much every neighbour you can imagine and their kids never became Muslims through us.

Faarax, I've already answered that in pretty much every scenario possible.

[FarhanYare]

Why shame her? Just coz she's Somali doesn't mean you have the right to be up in her business. I mean it's not her fault she's Somali she just happened to be one and just because she is doesnt mean she has to act how the typical Somalis act. People have their own choices in life. We see white girls, black girls, Chinese girls, Asian girls, Arab girls etcc... Doing what you mentioned above so what difference does it make if a Somali does it? Being Somali doesnt come with rules and regulations you have to follow. Individuals are free to choose their own path. Somalis piss me off when they think they can get up in your business just because you happen to be Somali too. One time I was walking with this white guy (he was lost) I was showing him the place he was looking for and on the way we were having a genuine conversation. These Somali guys drive past telling me have shame. I was like wtf? Somalis need to mind their own business and focus on their daughters. I've noticed the ones who judge and talk bad about others are the ones who have messed up daughters.

true

[1nemansquad]

Tallo,
if you did your job as a parent and cared, educate and protect those in your care then you would have a Muslim community in a good shape entirely. You would not need the community helping you. It takes a village to raise a child is something a village idiot thought of, this rhetoric which basically says that a mother or a father is in incapable of taking care of their child is an argument that is fundamentally falwed.

I have more concern for my childs welfare, I have more knowledge of what my child's needs are spiritually, academically, emotionally and socially than anyone else in a so called community. Your investment in your child is far greater than anyone.

[gedo_gurl]

Oneman,

I didnt understand what he said in the same way. I thought he meant that if you think of yourself as being a part of a community, you're more aware of the damage that your bad choices/behaviour can have on people. Like when people have sex on the beach or drink to excess and all that follows. Those might seem like personal choices, but the have an affect on the community gradually.

[Colonel]

People who worry about what others do either do it because there isn't a lot going on in theirs or they do it out of misery. I don't even worry about what my siblings do, not because I don't care but because i don't believe in playing any bodies parent. I tell my own parents when they ask me to speak to such and such cause he or she is being f'n'f, (they are your child, not my responsibility) and I mean that. I don't expect anyone else help me parent my child and I will not help anyone else do theirs.

Now, as for young adults. Going through it myself I learned that what you do not only reflects on your present but also your future. Those who do bad, it catches up with them and those who do good might be lucky to not get caught up in all the evil that is taking place around us.

I don't drink, I don't club, Smoke and everything else you listed Gedo G so I don't see why I should care for those who do.

That's understandable if they're older than you but are you saying you wouldn't advice younger siblings?

[1nemansquad]

gg,
the part I have a disagreement with is the bad choices someone in the community makes and behaviour should in anyway undermine your ability to be a parent to your child. Your child might see or hear a bad choice/behaviour momentarily but he or she is by your side until they reach adulthood, parents make the best teachers, nobody else does a better job than a parent in a childs life so if you are incapable of shaping them to be responsible members of society then no else can in the community nor can they be led to the wrong path by anyone else other than you.

Col, there is a difference between parenting and advicing someone. Advicing or helping your siblings is somethings that comes to one inately, you don't choose to do it, just happens.

[Colonel]

^ You're answer is not clear however I disagree with you on your parenting point. You should definitly do so if a younger sibling is acting up, advising is just not enough in this case.

For example, letting your younger sister go out while dressed inappropriately without uttering a word or by giving "soft advice" due to not wanting to do your parents job is quite shameful. One is expected to tell her to get changed right away, if she don't listen you better believe she ain't going anywhere.

[gedo_gurl]

Oneman, I completely agree with you on that one. You are the main educator and role model for your child until your dying day. Your advice, closeness and example will ultimately have the biggest impact and no one else can have more influence regardless of whihc society you grew up in. I know that in binge drinking London a lot of Somalis are more religious than you would find back in Somalia and they are usually the family orientated ones.

[Talo alle udaa]

1newman, the tone of my response was in reaction to the general apathy most were expressing towards actions of others.

I think you raise good points about the importance of family, but I can assure there are many good parents who care about their children, but the kids just end up taking a different path.
You have to be realistic, even if you raise your child to the best of your ability, society at large will have an impact one way or another.

I remember this black kid I use to go to school with.
He always practiced in the morning at the court, in the hope of going pro one day. The kid was so dedicated, every one use to complement him on the bus. Then after he finished middle school and started high school, something changed. He started hanging out with the "cool" kids. He wanted to be "respected" and so he started sagging his pants. In the hood, he started to sell dope, and before you know it, he dropped from high school altogether.

In this complex situation, the blame cannot be attributed to a single entity. Today, no community has experience a greater meltdown with regards to their youth than the Somalis. A mixture of lack of parenting skills, a toxic environment, wrong choices, all have contributed to the thousands of Somali young men being in state prisons.

The most pivotal point in a teen's life are the High school years.

[Leftist]

A non-muslim friend once told me: "You guys(ie, muslim societies) indulge in every filth/depravity known to mankind, just as non-muslims do.....except that you guys keep it UG(underground)"


At the time I argued vehemently against that notion, defending the honor of muslims and not wanting to admit weakness.

But the truth is: he's right. And what enables this UG is the shaming/taboo factor. Sangub (allegedly) molests a 10 year old girl oo adeer oo yahay, but the shaming/taboo keeps it underground until she grows up and seeks justice. There are even more graphic and disgusting examples but lets keep it at that.

From my observations, the #1 factor that determines whether a boy or a girl will sail successfuly through the turbulent seas of adolosence/young adulthood is: a strong family structure and a strong family support system.

Absentee parents + raised on pop culture = Generation "As long as it feel good"

Trying to shame them at that point is too late.