Do we still need dowries?

[hydrogen]

If the bride's family want to whore off their girl for money then so be it, that's their choice, just like its your choice to tell them they can go fuck themselves.

Nice of you to manipulate the concept of 'whore' because you're a cheapskate.

[metamorphosis]

It is always the stingy ones that ask such questions. It is Islamic to give dowry to the female. It is in the Quran. Some of you need to leanr the Quran because if you did you certainly wouldnt ask such stupid questions.

[BlackVelvet]

Marriage is a contract

Mehr is the consideration.


When performing at London Olympics the artists were given £1. That's how I understand mehr and that's why it's necessary. That said, it must be the most awkward conversation to have with someone. I found out on SNet that some people "negotiate"


Also Somalis only pay it in the event of a divorce. Another strange thing. In terms of what I would ask for, I genuinely don't know. Something that can be given with relative ease and something that I can give back with relative ease. A lot of people seem to forget that if the woman is the one forcing the issue of divorce she has to give the mehr back.

[Octavius]

Jasmine, call me an idealis if you will, but I would like to think that eachother's time, effort and companionship would the consideration given. The consideration neednt be a monetary exchange, unless for the recipient that monetary exchange is an end in itself.

And why should the mehr be an amount that you can give back with relative ease? There is no religious obligation for you to give it back under any circumstances, even in the event that you request a divorce. You have an irrefutable and irrevocable religious right to receive.


And you should set it at a high price and negotiate if you so wish. Any fool who agrees to pay an extortionate amount of money only has himself to blame. I would pay maximum £3000 if she is Somali. A non Somali I would pay a token £1; either that or she can take a hike.

[zulaika]

We say atm saxiib.


Zuli, does it cost money?

It doesn't have to, but if a man wants to spend money on his woman..on behalf of his woman etc, I don't see a problem with it.. I know some females will equate such expenditure with worth or even be offended, and such women should be accommodated.

I wonder if the Indian customs in modern era have grooms expressing their liberal angst to scrap the groom dowry

[BlackVelvet]

Jasmine, call me an idealis if you will, but I would like to think that eachother's time, effort and companionship would the consideration given. The consideration neednt be a monetary exchange, unless for the recipient that monetary exchange is an end in itself.

And why should the mehr be an amount that you can give back with relative ease? There is no religious obligation for you to give it back under any circumstances, even in the event that you request a divorce. You have an irrefutable and irrevocable religious right to receive.


And you should set it at a high price and negotiate if you so wish. Any fool who agrees to pay an extortionate amount of money only has himself to blame. I would pay maximum £3000 if she is Somali. A non Somali I would pay a token £1; either that or she can take a hike.

It has to have some form of monetary value, it's the rule.

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that if the wife is asking for the divorce and the husband doesn't want to then she'd have to give back the mehr. She's not obliged to if he's the one initiating it. That's my understanding.

[eliteSomali]

Let's get a few things right. Dowry is not the same as Meher. Meher is a religious right of the wife where the husband is MUST make a compensation, be it in the form of money or possession, etc.. Dowry is the money, possessions, assets and etc.. that the wife brings into the marriage and it is from her family NOT her husband. So in Islam, this isn't practiced but if we were to practice it, whatever assets the wife brings into the marriage is entirely hers and she can give parts of it to her husband ONLY after he's paid the mehr.

Now, the mehr is is not be joked about. It has nothing to do with the female's worth. But since some of you want to equate mehr with the worth of the wife, I think she's even cheaper if you marry her without any sort of payment. Lastly, mehr is discussed in Surah Baqrah and other parts of the quran. Even if you died without paying the mehr of your wife, before any other loans in your name were to be paid, the mehr would be paid first.

This is not a matter that's up for a discussion no matter how long you discuss it, it'll never go away as the Quran is not amendable. If you have questions, ask a knowledgeable shaikh.

Pay the mehr, son!

[SultanOrder]

We say atm saxiib.


Zuli, does it cost money?

It doesn't have to, but if a man wants to spend money on his woman..on behalf of his woman etc, I don't see a problem with it.. I know some females will equate such expenditure with worth or even be offended, and such women should be accommodated.

I wonder if the Indian customs in modern era have grooms expressing their liberal angst to scrap the groom dowry

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201405222112-0023757

This is what inspired the topic.

[Octavius]

Jasmine, call me an idealis if you will, but I would like to think that eachother's time, effort and companionship would the consideration given. The consideration neednt be a monetary exchange, unless for the recipient that monetary exchange is an end in itself.

And why should the mehr be an amount that you can give back with relative ease? There is no religious obligation for you to give it back under any circumstances, even in the event that you request a divorce. You have an irrefutable and irrevocable religious right to receive.


And you should set it at a high price and negotiate if you so wish. Any fool who agrees to pay an extortionate amount of money only has himself to blame. I would pay maximum £3000 if she is Somali. A non Somali I would pay a token £1; either that or she can take a hike.

It has to have some form of monetary value, it's the rule.

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that if the wife is asking for the divorce and the husband doesn't want to then she'd have to give back the mehr. She's not obliged to if he's the one initiating it. That's my understanding.

As far as I know the woman is under no religious obligation to forfeit her mehr under any circumstance, including in the event of a divorce. But there may be a culture of using mehr as leverage during divorce proceedings, when a man may refuse to grant a divorce unless the woman forfeits her right to receive her mehr. This is effectively blackmail and brings up the subject of perceived power imbalances between a man and a woman in Islamic marriages. It also highlights the systematic failure of Somali/Muslim women to learn and exercise their God given rights such as demanding payment of the mehr upon the commencement of marriage and stipulating explicitlt in the marriage contract that their right to receive the mehr is and should be guaranteed, unconditional and irrevocable.

[Cherine]

Why don't Somalis pay upfront like all other Muslims? I've always found that weird. They usually pay the wife when she gets divorced.

[eliteSomali]

Divorce can occur in three different ways.

1. If the woman and man have consummated the marriage, she gets her mehr regardless of who asks for the divorce.
2. If they have not consummated the marriage, she gets no mehr if she is the one that asks for the divorce.
3. I forgot. Maybe Shaikh hyper can add enlighten us on the third one.

[Octavius]

Why don't Somalis pay upfront like all other Muslims? I've always found that weird. They usually pay the wife when she gets divorced.

Because they're trying to.be cheap. And because they probably (and this is haram) want to weasel out of paying the mehr should the marriage go sour.

[Octavius]

Divorce can occur in three different ways.

1. If the woman and man have consummated the marriage, she gets her mehr regardless of who asks for the divorce.
2. If they have not consummated the marriage, she gets no mehr if she is the one that asks for the divorce.
3. I forgot. Maybe Shaikh hyper can add enlighten us on the third one.

Divorce can occur in many different ways and in many different circumstances. But I am not aware of any situation in which a wife loses her right to receive her mehr. Do you have any sources. And also, from what ive read from the Quran, the wife's right to receive mehr or the payment/transfer of the mehr is not conditional and is entirely independent from and unrellated to divorce, except for the emphasis that even once divorced the man is not alleviated of his obligation to pay the meher which he committed to pay. I would imagine though that a woman reserves the right to amend her right to receive the agreed mehr i.e. reduce or pardon the amount, of her own free accord.

[BlackVelvet]

Someone more knowledgeable than me should answer your question.