migration of galla and somali

[LobsterUnit]

https://www.academia.edu/248346/The_Ori ... and_Somali

IM lewis' s promotion of somali clan tales has led many to believe that somalis all came from northern somalia and then pushed the oromo out of southern somalia.we have people like hawdian claiming that rahanweyn are oromos and hawiyes have no history.there are various historical references to somali clans like hawiye settling in marka as early as the 13th century.ibn batuta desrcibes the land of somalis as stretching all the way to muqdisho-and probably beyond.oromos started invading somali territories after the ahmad gurey jihad, creating multiple frontlines and wars of victories and defeats gainst somali clans.according to their own history, oromos started expanding east from southern ethiopia and do not originate in southern somalia as IM lewis and some somalis claimed.he even attributed places like erigavo to oromos. I am baasto a history junkie.read the pdf above for more info.

[zumaale]

You are right to an extent Baasto. You see I.M.Lewis had biased sources but that does not dispel from the truth that many Somali clans originate from the North. For instance, Odeeyga Abgaal is buried in Waqooyi not far from Hargeysa. Most Dir and Darood sub-clan founders are also found in Sanaag.

There was no difference between the ancestors of the Oromo and Samaales, what separated us is Islam. Those closer to coastal influences adopted Islam, whereas, those inland stuck to their pagan faiths. Oromo is not a homogeneous identity. It loosely translates as people of the land and does not refer to an ancestor. Some Oromos and other cushites such as the Sidamo when they abtiirso are Samaales for instance. It is a subject worthy of research of my opinion, collecting the unabridged abtiiris of these people before the opportunity evades us.

[LobsterUnit]

You are right to an extent Baasto. You see I.M.Lewis had biased sources but that does not dispel from the truth that many Somali clans originate from the North. For instance, Odeeyga Abgaal is buried in Waqooyi not far from Hargeysa. Most Dir and Darood sub-clan founders are also found in Sanaag.

There was no difference between the ancestors of the Oromo and Samaales, what separated us is Islam. Those closer to coastal influences adopted Islam, whereas, those inland stuck to their pagan faiths. Oromo is not a homogeneous identity. It loosely translates as people of the land and does not refer to an ancestor. Some Oromos and other cushites such as the Sidamo when they abtiirso are Samaales for instance. It is a subject worthy of research of my opinion, collecting the unabridged abtiiris of these people before the opportunity evades us.

Oromo oral history is supported by various first hand historical sources, linguistics and basic geography. They left their homeland in modern day southern ethiopia and then expanded out from there. They were not somalis who refused to accept islam nor did they settle in somalia.

Somalis fought with them from the 16th century onwards.somalis accepted islam in the 11th century.so how can oromo be a proto somali group that didnt accept islam?

[zumaale]

I did not state they were proto-Somalis, I argued that they have a common origin and the differences between the two became more pronounced after our ancestors accepted Islam. We did originate in South East Ethiopia and spread to the coast, where we were influenced by Islam and as our numbers grew we migrated south. Not all Samaales, some might have not reached the coast, I am referring mainly to Irir Samaales and the Darood. The burial place of the progenitors of the subclans that form these clans are predominately buried up North. In order to get a better, more research should be done on other Samaales such as Maqarre Samaales that Ajuurans descend from or Gardheere Samaales such as Galjeecel, Degoodi, Masare, Tuuf Garde etc descend from. The research done by western academics were limited and the questions raised by them need further research into the different lineages that make up the Oromo and Somali people to find out how often an overlap occurs. There is no doubt considering their common place of origin and changing borders over the past millennium.

[LobsterUnit]

Again, you are regurgitating pseudo somali clan tales.somalis, oromos, afar, rendille and 23 other related groups possibly have a common ancestor some thousands of years ago.. All those languages are still spoken in southern ethiopia region-with the exception of somali, afar, rendille.according to rendille oral history they migrated due to the oromo expansion 500 years ago..somalis and afar must have migrated a long time before that.

Back to oromos, they left their homeland and fought against somalis in the late 16th century
This is a historical fact.what there is no evidence for is the claim that oromos and somalis were one and seperated after islam.IM lewis made that myth into history and it needs to be refuted. Oromos and somalis probably have a common ancestor probably 5-10 thousand ago but so do a plethora of other groups.i am baasto some oromos are now even claiming hargeysa.

[James Dahl]

There are two distinct things we are talking about here: nationality and lineage. They are not the same thing!

Somalis, Amhara and Oromo all assimilated numerous tribes into their nationalities, often each getting a section of one tribe or another. Where once there were hundreds of tribes now there are 3 large nationalities. Islamic tribes who avoided being conquered by Abyssinia or the advancing Oromo became Somalis or Afars. Tribes that were conquered by Oromos were adopted and eventually entirely assimilated into the Oromo nationality. Tribes that were conquered by Abyssinia were Christianized and now identify as Amhara. There are Samaale Amhara, Samaale Afar and Samaale Oromo, there are Amhara Somali, Oromo Somali, Hadiya Somali and Gurage Somali, there are Oromo of hundreds of different origins.

When approaching this issue you have to address these seperately. Tribes have an ethnogenesis, but nationalities also have a "natiogenesis" that supercedes the ethnogenesis and acts to mask or subvert the true origins of clans and tribes. Politics trumps truth, be a mountain or lean on one.

[LobsterUnit]

A few tribes on the frontiers being assimilated into one group does not negate the fact that oromos and somalis were completely distinct people when the oromos launched their invasion In the 16th century.the purpose of this thread was to expose to myth regarding oromos and somalis being one or close people during the advent of islam.such a myth has no basis except in the works of im lewis somalis who dont know where they come from.

James, the myths of oromos being expelled from places like gaalkacayo, having shrines in erigavo belonging to them, rahanweyn being oromo.etc.are all historical fallacies.i am baasto soon they will claim boroma because it sounds like oromo.

[Jabuutawi]

The phenomenon of north-south, south-north is not a singular event that happened. Go beyond proto-Somali, Oromo and amalgamation of tribes called Amhara, and you will see migrations have been going on in both directions over several millenia. Somali Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1b (most common among Somalis) and haplogroup T (M70, which I belong to, 15-20% of Somalis mainly in the north have this marker), parent clade from North Africa and west Asia in the case of M70 migrated southward -- after tens of thousands of years when "out of Africa" occurred.

Fast forward thousands of years and proto-Somali branched off from the Oromo precisely at the Omo-Tana River valley. These proto-Somalis followed the Tana River until they reached the coast and moved northward all the way to Somali-Galbeed, Waqoyi-Galbeed till they reached Saylac and its environs. This is all pre-Islamic period, then conversion happened or right before that period, now called Somalis, they started moving southward and pushed back the Oromo from vast areas, hence why Somalis are blessed with huge landmass in 4 different countries in the Horn. There was minimal contact between Somalis and amalgamation of Amhara tribes; in fact, when Somalis were victors over the Amhara they brough back their women (certain Amhara tribes only) as trophy wives, uma habushed of the Haber Jeclo, Isaq is an example.

Conclusion: Several migratory paths in both directions which ultimately shaped the Somali ethos, ethnicity and nationality.

[Khalid Ali]

The Galla or the oromos as they wish to be called came from south Eastern Ethiopia around 6000 Years ago The Somaal migrated from several corners not one corner from the north to the south from the south to the north from the west to the south. The Nomadic Somali clans went all corners the past 2000 years. The Somaal have fought the oromo in Kilinka Somalida and in the south this indicates that Somalis were going all sort ways. The Oromo divided between the Bereentu and Borana the Somalis dealt with both groups. The Rahanweyn Gare with the Borana, and the Isaaq Darood and Dir with the Bareentu

[LobsterUnit]

Did the somalis originate in southern ethiopia? Nacam.did they migrate thousands of years ago and split off from other cushitic groups? Yes.did the somalis accept islam and push the oromos southwards? No, because there exists no historical evidence for this.did the oromos and somalis seperate after islam?no.that is all I wanted to clear up.somalis only start warring with oromos in the 16th century after the oromos emerged out of southern ethiopia.in fact, the lands somali clans settle has changed very little over the past 2 thousand years.


Ps.james you are spewing nonsense.tribes who didnt get conquered by abysnia became somalis and afar?wth. You really expect intelligent fellows to swallow this rubbish?please stop making things up.

[James Dahl]

The etymology for Gaalkacyo is indeed a myth, more likely it originally meant "where camels transit".

Ethnic origin is a complicated issue and approaching it from a one-dimensional viewpoint is a bad idea. Conquest, voluntary assimilation and religion were just as important factors as lineage in establishing the Somali nationality.