The role of religion within state

[Typhoon]

by Eaglehawk » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:38 pm

How do we reconcile state and religion?


Well we cannot have an Islamic government because there is no such thing as Islamic government, a government is an interlocking abstract institutions headed by individuals.
What we can have is a government that is sharia complainant, the source which upon the conduct and the check and balances of the state institution are based should be shariah law.

I say this because government can`t take a shahada nor can it make salah, nor pay zakah because the resources are public property, it cannot fast nor make a hajj, so a government is not an individual but it has individuals running it and it’s here where shariah applies, the shariah applies to Muslims.
Imagen a government is like a PlayStation console, a PlayStation without hardware won`t work (governance institutions) and a playstation without video game won`t work (quran/sunnah)

So basically sharia law is the Interface that will be the point of interaction between the operators of the state, the state, and religion which in turn will reflect upon the states action.

Now the institutions are secular they will take whatever game you put in liberalism, communism, islam, Christianity but its shariah law what makes it islamic in its conduct without having autocratic individuel based governance
The combination of software and console and the individual is what makes game experience, now the combination of state institutions, law and the individual makes the governance experience

viewtopic.php?t=299766&p=3562236

[sahal80]

Not only about sharia as a law not as a muslim/slamic state but as a political and economical orientation-like some muslim brotherhood parties believe-that strenghens the islamic market such as arbakan...

Some like rashid al ghanoushi believe in freedom and the political game wich includes the secular parties-can replace the islamic movement through elections-

I believe this bc we would have less bantu and habasha control on our political life I we had stronger relations with the arab and muslim world

Unlike of the black africa, these countries believe in strong somalia

We can have diplomatic and economical relations with the US/UK/italy

Despite israel being against it, turkey plays mediator role for the US in the middle east and the relations with iran
Islam in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Turkey

[Typhoon]

Not only about sharia as a law not as a muslim/slamic state but as a political and economical orientation-like some muslim brotherhood parties believe-that strenghens the islamic market such as arbakan...

Some like rashid al ghanoushi believe in freedom and the political game wich includes the secular parties-can replace the islamic movement through elections-

I believe this bc we would have less bantu and habasha control on our political life I we had stronger relations with the arab and muslim world

Islam in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Turkey

sahal let me teach you about somali political history.

when somali students we send to the arab world they came back with political islam or pan arabism, not knowing the origins of those movements
when somali students were send to russia they came back to somalia with socialism (even karl marx acknowedge that socielism could never work in russia or non industrialized society let alone geeljire nation)
when somali students were send to the west they came back with liberalism and notions like anglosaxon anarchic freedom based on capitalism.

somali student in turkey will come back with kababs and twisted ideology that mixes islam, nationalism and chauvinism( Turkish AKP ideology)



you properly lived or grew up in the arab world so, which category do you think I would place you in?

[sahal80]

Eaglehawk

You have great horizon probably bc you know the philosophy

Thanks for the clarification

I'm particularly not onto specific group yet but I'm closer to the islamic movement

The islamic movement is from arbakan to taliban as one thinker puts it

People like abdi aynte, abukar arman, abdirashid hashi, afyer elmi r islamists( the intellectual ala sheekh) yet they have worked in the international crisis, UNHCR, with the US as diplomats

Ikhwan parties had too socialism agenda hence why the justice and development parties, in turkey, marroco... even somalia

Ishtirakiyat al islam is a book belongs to the founder of the syrian islamic movement mustafa al subaci

Sayid qutbs early works too

"wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb
Qutb's first major theoretical work of religious social criticism, Al-'adala al-Ijtima' iyya fi-l-Islam (Social Justice in Islam)"

But islamists who reached power in somalia like dj have disappointed us bc instead of being a model for social and political reformations and ending mooryanism and corruption they continued using the same corrupt political system

Heard that the intellectual ala sheekh r waiting until the system changes like a new parliament

[STARKAST]

There is no state without Islam. Everything else is secondary. easy

[sahal80]

Debate between professor samater and ambassador arman

I don't like his secularism point


As for political leadership, I really like him, he had an amazing political formula called 3+1 when he was a presidential candidate

He talks about the new leadership that somalia lacks

I think we r not yet in his era

He's great at international relations and can fix somalia regionally and internationally not like masaakiinta dj!

[Typhoon]

Debate between professor samater and ambassador arman

I don't like his secularism point


As for political leadership, I really like him, he had an amazing political formula called 3+1 when he was a presidential candidate

He talks about the new leadership that somalia lacks

I think we r not yet in his era

He's great at international relations and can fix somalia regionally and internationally not like masaakiinta dj!

samatar is a idiot and he is the product of colonial education, he reminds me of indian/pakistani post colonial leaders and scholars
the guy is narcissistic and deceptive, he feels that because he has a degree it would automaticly command respect and cult like flowing.

The only time i heared him talk about substantive issue was, when he once talked about martin heidegger book "being and time," and his analysis of Egyptian revolution, apart from that, he shows all the traits of guudibirsi which am not that fond of (making a mice into elephant and 2 faced personality)
he criticizes every leader but deep down want to be in their position.

I like ambassador arman, a future jubalander and genially good man

[sahal80]

Give me some details of arman

All I know is that he's the reer xamar/banadiri of hiiraan(there were banadiri and pure yemenities in hiiraan)

His mum is one of the local clans but not sure wich qabil

How he's a jubbalander?

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

There is no state without Islam. Everything else is secondary. easy

...he types whilst sipping cool lemonade in a house provided by his host country, most likely western, and on his pc/laptop made in a (most likely) east asian country.

[AbdiJohnson]

Religion is a private matter. It's not the job of the state to carry out and prioritize God's laws before anything else. They are supposed to be providing its citizens service delivery, establishing and maintaining peace and order and running an effective public service to cater to the needs of the people.

You may follow God's laws on your own. If you committed adultery or some other sin that the state doesn't recognize as being a crime, you are free to open up a Tylenol bottle and swallow everything in there or shoot yourself.

We cant rely on religion to punish slave owners or victims of honor killings and many more things.

If someone doesn't want to pray, the government shouldn't be forcing them to enter a mosque or a church. The government shouldn't force people to get their parent's permission to marry the love of their life who disapprove for silly reasons.

Only certain things should be allowed like your inheritance laws. But no. The government cannot force your daughters to cover their heads or lash people who are not fasting or execute two men who are in a relationship

I am,

Abdi "Anyone who forces religion on others should be jailed" Johnson

[STARKAST]

States religion of uk is Christianity; Lords Spirituals etc. Also i prefer elderflower cordial..

Abdi no point getting so emotional ? "Your" "Canadian" now, you can attend as many pride rallies as you want

[sahal80]

Not just that, head of the church is the queen; another ayatullahi!

"The British monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England"

Uk is not a secular state like france where the state is not allowed to fund the churches.

[BigBreak]

sahal etc, a civil state, as advocated and defined by certain muslims particularly arabs of a religiously political orientation, is neither secular nor theocratic. unlike the secular version, a civil state can have a relationship with, and even referenced by, a particular religion. unlike the theocratic version, the civil state separates political and religious authority. a fully fledged civil state needs to have the following points:
- no combination of political and religious authority
- the explicit code of religious law is not the sole source of legislation
- neutrality towards all political ideologies of the theological spectrum

[sahal80]

Bigbreak

Absolutely!

Even some of the muslim brotherhood like arbakan and rashid al ghanoushi believe only in civil state and islam as a political and economical tendency

The opposite ideology of the EU wich is like a new secular roman empire that has christian roots like its hostile position from turkey

"In April 1981 Al-Ghannushi founded the Islamic Tendency Movement (Arabic: حركة الاتجاه الإسلامي‎ Ḥarakat al-Ittijāh al-Islāmī). The Movement described itself as specifically rooted in non-violent Islam, and called for a "reconstruction of economic life on a more equitable basis, the end of single-party politics and the acceptance of political pluralism and democracy."

[BigBreak]

sahal thanks for the positive reply really appreciate it

would you believe that any clan based somali society that's building a state would require a civil state because it could accommodate customary law