The Gulen movement and Turkish power revival

[21CenturyAmir]

The problem with somalis that they don't come up with anything original, all the most revolutionary islam ideaology of the last 100 years have come out of somewhere else and we always follow these ideology under the umbrella of islam. the Salafi movement began in Arabia, the muslim brotherhood in Egypt, the Shia revolution in Iran, the Gulen movement in Turkey and Hizb Tahrir in West or Indian because most of their adherent/figurehead are hindi. All these ideaology want to use islam as a political tool to gain power, influence and control over the destiny of the muslim world. We need to learn from progressive movement like Gulen, i like that they wed islam with economic and scientific advancement, but all these ajnabi movement have hidden agendas. just because the Turkey have been good to our people recently doesn't mean that somalis should loose our innate suspicious we let down our guard once and we get Al-Shabab. if Al-Shabab hasn't taught somalis to be weary of greek bearing gift nothing will.

the problem with our people is that we have no where to turn to, the state fell, our clan elders have lost legitimacy and even our religion has become a tool where foreign ideology compete for control over our people. I went to Ohio once there are two mosque, one is strictly for Salafist, another for a combination of traditionalist and follower of the muslim brother. they won't even pray with each other, every thing was allegiance to their respective movement. if we can't been pray behind each other what hope do we have.The fact of the matter is that somalis need a big Shir, that bring together all the stake holder of our society and establish our own movement. we need our own qualified religious authority, our own al-azhar that vet all these ideologies so that we assimilate only the good and keep away from those that would bring evil on our people.

[Lamagoodle]

The problem with somalis that they don't come up with anything original, all the most revolutionary islam ideaology of the last 100 years have come out of somewhere else and we always follow these ideology under the umbrella of islam. the Salafi movement began in Arabia, the muslim brotherhood in Egypt, the Shia revolution in Iran, the Gulen movement in Turkey and Hizb Tahrir in West or Indian because most of their adherent/figurehead are hindi. All these ideaology want to use islam as a political tool to gain power, influence and control over the destiny of the muslim world. We need to learn from progressive movement like Gulen, i like that they wed islam with economic and scientific advancement, but all these ajnabi movement have hidden agendas. just because the Turkey have been good to our people recently doesn't mean that somalis should loose our innate suspicious we let down our guard once and we get Al-Shabab. if Al-Shabab hasn't taught somalis to be weary of greek bearing gift nothing will.

the problem with our people is that we have no where to turn to, the state fell, our clan elders have lost legitimacy and even our religion has become a tool where foreign ideology compete for control over our people. I went to Ohio once there are two mosque, one is strictly for Salafist, another for a combination of traditionalist and follower of the muslim brother. they won't even pray with each other, every thing was allegiance to their respective movement. if we can't been pray behind each other what hope do we have.The fact of the matter is that somalis need a big Shir, that bring together all the stake holder of our society and establish our own movement. we need our own qualified religious authority, our own al-azhar that vet all these ideologies so that we assimilate only the good and keep away from those that would bring evil on our people.

You are making some good points. I have always wondered why people assume we became muslims after the civil war, Somalis have been muslims for many centuries; religion was part of our lives and it was not up for discussions.

It is funny; our identity was "somali" because nobody questioned whether we were muslims or not. Nowadays, it seems that claiming you are a somali first might result in a crazy fatwa.

It is the combination of saudi petrodollars and the destruction of our institutions that have resulted in embracing a crazy cultural ideology.

[21CenturyAmir]

You are making some good points. I have always wondered why people assume we became muslims after the civil war, Somalis have been muslims for many centuries; religion was part of our lives and it was not up for discussions.

It is funny; our identity was "somali" because nobody questioned whether we were muslims or not. Nowadays, it seems that claiming you are a somali first might result in a crazy fatwa.

It is the combination of saudi petrodollars and the destruction of our institutions that have resulted in embracing a crazy cultural ideology.

exactly, our ancestors where muslim for over a thousand years, but today i am shock when somalis portray our islam pre-1990s as an age of Jahaliya. some of these people have no moderation they equate our ancestors tradition muslim to the pagans of pre-islam Arabia. as if they are bon fide gaalo when these man had more piety that most of our so called modern Sheiks.

The British finding Oil in Arabia change the dynamics of the Arab world, culminating today in rise of the Gulf Cooperation Consul and the fall of the traditional powers like syria, iraq and Egypt. the northern islam was more progressive than the desert islam of Arabia. northern islamic give us empires while Arabia islam give extremism. in the 9th century, a shia sultanate attack Mecca and Medina killing ten of thousand of pilgrims defiling the well of Zamzam with dead bodies and stole the black stone. now it birth the Salafi movement whose aims are nothing short of domination,when they destroy the tombs of the dead, the Sahaba no less do you think they will spare the living.

the problem with our people is that we have never been literate, we have no great library like in Timbaktu, no great sheiks who contribute to any field of islam scholarship. we have no Ulema to speak of until the precent day but most of them were trained in the Egypt,and now in Arabia. how many young men have you known who have gone to Yemen, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for "islamic education". These are not strictly education per say but also indoctrination. when they return home they spread political islam whether it the brotherhood version or the Salafi version. next they create publishing house, and all other form of media. when you have no allegiance to family, state, country and history, culture but to islam alone and foreign ajnabi control the islam somalia consume it dangerous. the state loses all power when global networks can create political disruption by calling people to rally or strike, you no long have sovereignty. the state than has two choose either to suppress/crush the group violently like in Syria in the 80s when Hafez al-Assad bombarded Hama killing ten of thousand. the brotherhood was not destroyed it simply melted back into the fabric of the society to plague his son today, or you try to accommodate these element which might result in a theocracy like in Iran. but in both of these cases, these revolution where localized and indigenous but not with today political islam which has access to Tweeter and Facebook and idea of a sovereign nation state goes out the window.

[Lamagoodle]

21st century Amir,

We used to have islamic schools generally ran by XIR (missionaries). There was a clear tenure track system; you started with dugsi, became kabiir, then xir, then macalim and finally after many years, you became sheikh,

The sheikh was the source of wisdom .

This is now gone. What you have today are brainwashed teenagers who have been fed wahabi nonsense and a command of the quran.

What we need in a future somalia is a licensing system to become an islamic scholar.

[gurey25]

One question that begs for answers is this:

Have you got an example of an existing islamic state to benchmark?

There is no existing Islamic state to benchmark, there is no competition to the capitalist western state model,
they just defeated their only rival recently in 1990.
They are in a position of total victory and completely dominate the entire globe, even the education and intellectual debate is dominated by them and in the muslim world you have ignorance, despotism.
This is why history is important you cannot change your direction or condition if you do not know how you got here, or where you came from.

As a muslim we must strive to find and build this alternative, one that is accordance with our religion.

My question to you is do you believe that secularism does not conflict with islam?

There are alternatives to the current system, we need to work towards them,
as a muslim your duty is to strive towards islam.
We need to first defeat this virulent movement that makes womens clothing and body parts the focus of all theological and political debat, ignoring the glaring economic and political and even cultural problems plaguing the muslim world.

[Garuun]

the problem with our people is that we have never been literate, we have no great library like in Timbaktu, no great sheiks who contribute to any field of islam scholarship. we have no Ulema to speak of until the precent day but most of them were trained in the Egypt,and now in Arabia. how many young men have you known who have gone to Yemen, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for "islamic education". These are not strictly education per say but also indoctrination. when they return home they spread political islam whether it the brotherhood version or the Salafi version. next they create publishing house, and all other form of media. when you have no allegiance to family, state, country and history, culture but to islam alone and foreign ajnabi control the islam somalia consume it dangerous. the state loses all power when global networks can create political disruption by calling people to rally or strike, you no long have sovereignty. the state than has two choose either to suppress/crush the group violently like in Syria in the 80s when Hafez al-Assad bombarded Hama killing ten of thousand. the brotherhood was not destroyed it simply melted back into the fabric of the society to plague his son today, or you try to accommodate these element which might result in a theocracy like in Iran. but in both of these cases, these revolution where localized and indigenous but not with today political islam which has access to Tweeter and Facebook and idea of a sovereign nation state goes out the window.

I dont know if you have heard about or listened to sh. Boqolsoon (Allaha u naxariistee).without his work (most of it recorded) I think many of us somalis would be confused like you describe.he was educated in somalia too.pure caqeedah indeed.

http://www.somalitalk.com/xigmad/boqol.html

[Lamagoodle]

Dear Gurey,
I agree with almost what you wrote above; but, don't you agree that "islam" has recently been hijacked by lunatics, and culturally laden discourses?

[gurey25]

Dear Gurey,
I agree with almost what you wrote above; but, don't you agree that "islam" has recently been hijacked by lunatics, and culturally laden discourses?

We need to first defeat this virulent movement that makes womens clothing and body parts the focus of all theological and political debat, ignoring the glaring economic and political and even cultural problems plaguing the muslim world.

[Lamagoodle]

Gurey, gartay

[Lamagoodle]

An update;
There is a rift between F Gulen and Erdogan.

P.s. most of the Turkish projects in Somalia are funded/carried out by Gulen associates.