Somalia's forgotten male war victims

[Bandit]

You gotta love somalis in 89 they were ass shaking for the central government to collapse fast forward 25+ years they bitch and moan about the consequences of what you people caused.
You made your bed now sleep

[EvolSyawla]

Sonofnomad, u raise a lot of good points. There's no doubt that the civil war has destroyed traditional gender roles and families, which were the bedrock of our society. Somali men are disenfranchised and have becoming hopeless and despondent. Also, I understand that there are challeneges facing Somali males in the west in terms of employment and advancement, but we shouldn't let that stop us. If we internalize and begin to identify with our place in these societies it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...like u said urself 'why should I even try?' is whats gonna go through your mind. And I know u agree with me on this, but we gotta stay as far away from a victim-hood mentality as much as we can, or else we'll be the biggest impediments to our success and not cadaans or the system.

I think that is slightly difficult considering Nomad's point:

"But the evidence strongly suggests otherwise. For Somali-Australians, being black and Muslim and with the additional stigma of coming from the world’s most corrupt country, the chances of finding full-time work – let alone a respectable white-collar job – are arguably the lowest in the Western world. In a country that lays claim to having one of the most robust and egalitarian job markets anywhere, the words “fair go” remain a mockery for hundreds of eternally unemployed Somali professionals."

How can you stay above the victim mentality, when you're being pushed down? I know one way would be to move out of Austrailia! As much as I hate America, at least over there Somali men have a great shot at being successful, dependant only on their drive. Otherwise, it's definitely something to applaud, seeing a Somali man staying away from the typical vices of our people and finding his way.


Anyways,

Sonofanomad, I really appreciate all the points you raised. It is easy as a woman to forget how deeply the issues from our men go, instead of just examining the results of qat. Thanks for your contributions here.

Heartbreaking thread...

[SolidCamel]

Australia is a poor example of s diaspora community. Australia is one of the more racist countries in the world.

[Jugjugwacwac]

I think that is slightly difficult considering Nomad's point:

"But the evidence strongly suggests otherwise. For Somali-Australians, being black and Muslim and with the additional stigma of coming from the world’s most corrupt country, the chances of finding full-time work – let alone a respectable white-collar job – are arguably the lowest in the Western world. In a country that lays claim to having one of the most robust and egalitarian job markets anywhere, the words “fair go” remain a mockery for hundreds of eternally unemployed Somali professionals."

How can you stay above the victim mentality, when you're being pushed down?

Victimhood mentality isnt just a benign and objective understanding of the challenges facing ur people. It's much deeper than that, and has serious ramifications on self-image,self-worth and culture. Once you view urself as a hapless victim u begin to internalize and indentify with ur position in society, leading to an inferiority-complex. U no longer deem urself or your people as being 'worthy' or 'up to par'. This has serious real world consequences, such as decreased confidence, feelings of anxiety especially when dealing with authority figures or groups deemed superior, restricting oneself to less prestigious jobs/educational institutions even if opportunies exist, resorting to crime as lucrative legal paths seem out of reach, the destruction of gender roles as men can no longer provide (men replaced by welfare, and government becomes new husband and daddy), high divorce rates and low marriage rates as men become nothing but sperm donors, kids growing up with no fathers and thus no discipline (results in boys having no sense of what it means to be a man so either become effeminate bitches or become hyper-masculine gangsters in order to prove manly worth, and girls having daddy issues and seeking love from random men and thus becoming sluts). Essentially u become like the African American community. That's why i'm saying we gotta be careful. We face challenges yes, but we cannot forget we are Somali and we must forever remain proud and make sure inaynu sanka taagno no matter what.

[SonofANomad]

Bro I have not said we should adopt victimhood mentality!

All i said is that there should be efforts made to solve our own issues instead of neglecting it!

You & everyone else here realize how much I hate victimhood mentality!

I always tell african Americans change will come when the supposed "victim" realize that his victimhood gives his alleged oppressor power!

[SonofANomad]

You gotta love somalis in 89 they were ass shaking for the central government to collapse fast forward 25+ years they bitch and moan about the consequences of what you people caused.
You made your bed now sleep

Who is whinning? Or bitching bringing up an issue up for discussion is not bitching or moaning!

I brought this issue regardless of who's at fault what the cause is! It's to advocate for the fact we need to fix it and not and not accept it!

What ur advocating for is us accepting our current circumstance and taking the huge L in the ass! If we encourage people to try and solve it then why are crying & moaning!

I did not cause anything! Nor did any of my relatives! That myopic view of who is to blame for what, is truly going to end up destroying us!

We need change and we need change now!

[SonofANomad]

Australia is a poor example of s diaspora community. Australia is one of the more racist countries in the world.

Australia is no different from any other white country!

This is reality we need acknowledge it and try to counter measure it and plan for how we should overcome it!

[EvolSyawla]

Well said Jug. You are right. Was more of a rhetorical comment, but I'm taking in what you said.

[Jugjugwacwac]

Bro I have not said we should adopt victimhood mentality!

All i said is that there should be efforts made to solve our own issues instead of neglecting it!

You & everyone else here realize how much I hate victimhood mentality!

I always tell african Americans change will come when the supposed "victim" realize that his victimhood gives his alleged oppressor power!

I was replying to Evol. I know we see eye to on eye this.

[Jugjugwacwac]

Well said Jug. You are right. Was more of a rhetorical comment, but I'm taking in what you said.

I knew u'd agree.

[Bandit]

You gotta love somalis in 89 they were ass shaking for the central government to collapse fast forward 25+ years they bitch and moan about the consequences of what you people caused.
You made your bed now sleep

Who is whinning? Or bitching bringing up an issue up for discussion is not bitching or moaning!

I brought this issue regardless of who's at fault what the cause is! It's to advocate for the fact we need to fix it and not and not accept it!

What ur advocating for is us accepting our current circumstance and taking the huge L in the ass! If we encourage people to try and solve it then why are crying & moaning!

I did not cause anything! Nor did any of my relatives! That myopic view of who is to blame for what, is truly going to end up destroying us!

We need change and we need change now!

Most of the people who were behind this were killed off long time ago but they have enough relatives who are happy about the outcome and if that's the case I hope they keep suffering.
Only 2 sub clans of all Somalis supported siyaad barre most of these other sub clans supported this outcome yet their the ones who bitch and moan about the current state of somalia. You can't on one hand celebrate the the people who caused this and on another cry about the consequences of their action
(of course am not talking about you exactly but they know who they are )

[Jugjugwacwac]

Warrior I agree with you. SNM along with those other rebel groups caused our current predicament. But when u say the MOD (Mareexaan, Ogaadeen and Dhulbahante) clans supported Siyaads regime, don't make it seem like they were farsighted and patriotic Somalis who knew the destruction that would befall our country and people if we destroyed the government. They were just like all the other groups who were fighting for the interest of their own clans and not the nation, but it just so happened that for them their clan interests lied in preserving the status quo at the time. This conveniently allows them to run around with their faux-nationalism. Anyway, hindsight is 20/20 and I dont think any of those rebel groups would have done what they did if they knew what the outcome would be. But unfortunately the SNM, USC, SPM and SSDF leaders who r still around will never admit this lest they lose their 'mujahid' status and thus legitimacy with their respective clans.

[SonofANomad]

Jugjugwacwac

Some leaders did admit to it and saw how stupid this was! For example Tuur and Egal who were pro unionist and wanted some sort of reconciliation between clans to commence and for each side repent for the injustice!

collectively they were shunned and booted out by theyre own clansemen

Ironic that the ones who were willing top push the reconciliation process between clans and unite somalia fostered a nation with blind hatred whos only goal is to cut the whole horn in to tiny slices of pie so that other countries can digest it easier!
i kind of dont understand how landers can spout secessionist ideology while holding up a picture of a former president Who said ''Somali shall one day be one*

its sad to see that the civilians have become more corrupted qabil minded than theyre bitter selfish leaders!

[Bandit]

Jugjugwacwac
your a reasonable person how ever most people are not like you.
I personally don't think everything the former regime did is good.
I don't support land expansion of any kind whether it was done by the regime or not

[SonofANomad]

Well said Jug. You are right. Was more of a rhetorical comment, but I'm taking in what you said.

I love this! i wish more somali women thought like you! I just hate self righteous people! Being intolerant of others opinions or thinking theyre own opinion is greater than someone elses is wrong!

That is why i myself have multiple times conceded to the fact im wrong in multiple issues and listen to what other have to say!
You learn alot that way!