Axmed Guray - What do you know about him?

[Xildiiid]

Who was the first clan chief .why toljeclo dynasty is mystery .No known garaads or suldans besides dhuux Baraar who was forced to give the chiefdom to cabdi ciise .And remember Cabdi ciise is the father of Suldan Guleed whose some of his grandchildren lived in 1940s!!

I corrected your nonsense and in response you’re deflecting from your lie in order to save face.

This method has defined your humiliating attempts in this thread.

somalidu waligeed ma maqal iidoor baa suldan guleed ka hor suldaan mise garaad lahaa.believe it or not,iidoor wuxuu dad noqday markuu cabdi ciise hogaanka u qabtay badhtamihii qarniga 1600s.

bal car wakaase meel kusheeg abtirsiinta saldanadii dhuux baraar,axmad gurey xuseen iyo garaad dhaaweyd cadayn miyaad haysaa.beeenbeen iyo taarikh gacan kurimis ah iska ilow .suldan guleed iyo aabihii cabdi ciise kahor iidoor waxba ma ahayn .labaduna waxay noolaayeen mar aan sii fogeyn 1650---1750

garaad dhaweyd wuxuu ahaa bartire.

Again you’re deflecting in order to save face..

If you were interested in sources you wouldn’t overlook the Arabic manuscript and the works of legimitate historians.

If Abtirsi was a correct method of pinpointing history, which it isn’t because anyone could concoct abtirsi out of thin air, then there wouldn’t be a discrepancy in your Dofaar Ismaciil abtirsi. Your alleged ancestor wouldn’t be alive at the same time as well established subclans that claim to be his descendants nor would maJAREERteen trace 35 oday to the alleged ancestor ‘Harti’ while the equal Dhillobadane and Wasakhgeli only trace 25.

Dhaweed is simply a name and that name exists in Gaadsan abtirsi. Are you going to claim that Gaadsan are Bartrire or Dofaar Ismaciil? I also came to find out that Dhaweed doesn’t exist in Bartire abtirsi.

Btw, Boqor Dhuux Baraar wasn’t a suldaan but a king. The title ‘sultaan’ was adopted when Boqor Dhuux Baraar was dethroned. The reason behind the name change was tyranny. Boqor Dhuux Baraar was allegedly a tyrant and people associated the title king with tyranny so it was replaced by the arabic term sultan.

[Voltage]

The Italian Translation:

La conquista mussulmana dell'Etiopia nel secolo XVI. Traduzione d'un manoscritto arabo con prefazione e note di Cesare Nerazzini, e una carta geografica del 1636.
Translations Page 24.

The Iman Akmed, mounted on horseback, ran before the file

of her and she prayed for God to give them patience and luck, and

he sent forth between the rows because the songsters incite to Combat

chin. He called his nephew with many "other leaders and delivered unto them

all the tribe of Harla with other tribes, placing them on the starboard side;

He puts the Somalis to the left under the command of Akmed Curi; he

the same was held at the center, having under him the whole people, and

choice courageous and 500 soldiers to guard his person. The sun was

Digia very high: the number of horses of the Muslims was 5 ^ 0

and soldiers on foot 1 2000; to the left were the Migiurtini and the

Somali Harla and Maid in number of 300, very good for

wield the sword; 400 were armed with arrows and had ordine to

pull from a standstill; the tribe of Ghiri had a lot of cavalry.

L 'Iman ordered to stand up quietly and then began to pray:

the same Kadi stepped off the mule and took sword and shield. a

Aììisa, famous for its strength, when he had seen the Christians,

He could not wait any longer, and two men had to hold it with

force but also the whole of Harla people were furious as Amsa.

Christians were divided into seven distributions, and their leader was king

Unassegged: he was with 400 soldiers and 400 left to right:

but for combat he ordered its 800 soldiers went

gU with others, and distributed Egyptian swords and iron armor. There

seventh part of the Christians was equal to any number of do muscles

lims: as an ox red leather, which has on one side a one white spot.
Translation Page 38.



The Iman immediately picked up the fifth part of the booty, that he

He was up, and remained in Harrar two months. But after the shipment of

Mercy, Iman Akmed had, in his heart the idea stops of combatants

tere Abyssinia and swore to himself no longer wanted to return to in-

behind, even at the cost of having to die in that region. As soon as

conceived his plan, the Imam came to the country said Zerba and sent

people Zeyla with the 'task of buying weapons and even guns.

The weapons were bought, including 7 guns, and were well

Zeyla chosen by 60 knights, who had headed bin Said el Sabab

Morii. As soon as they came, they were incorporated with people MENT

l 'Iman. He first met by all Somali Abarmagadil with their

Chief Gherad Dauid, in number of 500 foot and 50 horse; then

the tribe of Merrean under the head Ahmed Guri with 700 foot and 80

on horseback; Then the tribe of Gurgurà with 1,000 foot and 30 horse

under the head Gherad Abdi; the tribe of Ghiri under the head Gherad

Mattan with 1,000 foot and 80 horse; the tribe of Zerba in the Air

under the head sultan Mohamed with 20 horsepower and 300 foot;

the other tribes joined together to form another 500 on horseback


1.Who was Garaad Daaud or Dhaaweyd from Habar Magadle.

2.Why is that Majeerteen is mentioned in the Italian translation and not in the Arabic copies?Which Arabic manuscript was used for the Italian translation?

3.Since iidoor abtirsi is relatively short ,17--20, where does Ahmed Gurey Xuseen fits .

Darood clans mentioned in Futuh are very many ,Marehan,Geri,Harti,Yabaree,Jiiraan and Harla

Walle Marehan and Geri waa gob. They were true powerhouses even 700 years ago. The only two existing clans to be consistently and prominently mentioned during the saga of the Imam's wars.

I am still shocked how Somali folklore can be that substantiated. I grew up literally hearing every Marehan speak of Ahmed Gurey's wars as if Marehan were the most central clan only to see all the original source accounts put Marehan (and Geri Koombe) squarely in the middle and most prominent positions.

I was recently told in Nazareth, Ethiopia on the suburbs of Addis, there are "firxad" Marehans who still live there part of the defeat of the Imam by the Portuguese and Abyssinians. They are heavily Ethiopia.

Not to mention the very well known rumour that many in today's heavily Muslim Semitic-speaking Gurage community are originally Marehan.

If the Isaaq had the same sure fire record of Marehan, they would probably be farting perfumes all over the place knowing how desperate they are trying to celebrate "probably/possibly".

[Voltage]

The Silt'e people

The first settlers came to the Wulbarag area as traders and possibly as an outpost of Muslim sultanate. A second and better-known wave of settlers came during the time of Mohammed Gragn around 1542. Mohammed Gragn began a jihad against the people of Ethiopia underwritten by the Turks who provided guns and promised riches. Gragn recruited soldiers from Somalia and Harare and then raided the Orthodox areas of destroying and incredible wealth of historical artifacts and taking immeasurable gold. On Gragn's final campaign the Turks recruited soldiers from the Yemen, Somalia and Harare but Gragn was killed in the battle. Many of his soldiers returned to the Silt'e area.

The firxad or dispersal following the catastrophic defeat of the Imam's forces

I met an ethiopian girl about a month ago and we spoke for awhile. I asked her if she was amhara, tigrayan, oromo, or gurage etc. She told me she was none of those and that she was a group called silte and that they speak a language called siltinya. I told her I never heard of her people and she said that was unfortunate because many of her people are actually mostly of somali descent. I was surprised by that. The silte people I believe were mentioned in the conquest of abysinnia and they were clearly mentioned as a separate group from the somalis. Long story short, this girl told me that her ancestors were somali marehan but did not know what subclan they were after that. She said she had met some marehans in addis and that they themselves knew that silte people had people of marehan descent among them. have you guys ever heard of anything like this?

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 6&t=250609

I heard Silt people 1994, when they came to former Somali Ambassador to France Mr Samatar and told him they belong not to Marehans but Sede people and they lost each other about 800 years ago.

At the same time i knew an elder Majertain fellow who came to Addis with Italians and stranded there somehow. that fellow used to go somewhere of Addis vicinity every now and then he would come back next day with honey and butter when i asked where he gets his food he told me:
"I get my honey and butter from Marehan Fajane people"
Fajane sound to me a real Amharic name until i heard a reer Hassan guy who wass talking about his ancestor named Warmooge Fajane. the Mj fellow told me they call themselves Re Hassanah.
But if survive long enough we will see those people would be known as Rer Silt Diini and Reer Marehan Fajane Diini, mark my word.

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 9#p2894539

Somalis need serious anthropologists, historians, etc. There is a lot to uncover.

[Ben Dover]

If the Isaaq had the same sure fire record of Marehan, they would probably be farting perfumes all over the place knowing how desperate they are trying to celebrate "probably/possibly".

If you had ANY record you would not disappear the moment you were asked to provide ANY mention of Nur Ibn Mujahid being Marehan in the Arabic text.

(Watch him disappear again )

As for history, Bon Marehan was the ONLY CLAN out of the Somali clans the Imam sent messengers to that DID NOT answer the Imam's call to jihad. All sources confirm this. In fact they did not even want to join the Jihad, and the Imam FORCED them to join. Both Arabic and English translations tell the story of the Marehan wavering and not joining the Imam, at which point the Imam organised his soldiers and went to force them and their "double-dealing, swindler" of a leader Xiraabu Goita Teodorous to join.

The Marehan made excuses and said they could not join him on grounds of their poverty-stricken state



The Arabic text is very clear. Where as the English text states the bon marehan were "wavering", the Arabic is clear that the bon marehan were a no show. Which is why the Imam took his soldiers to face "Xiraabu and his tribe" (this completely destroys the bon marehan claim of Ahmed Gurey btw). At which point the bon marehan Xiraabu Gutia Teodorous started to beg and make up excuses, his poverty-stricken state and all (lol!).

At which point the Imam cursed him (wx khayr ah malihid).

Beyond the embarrasment of bon marehan calaacaling to the Imam, this confirms:

1) There is absolutely no relation between the Imam and the tribe of Xiraabu Gutia Teodorous.
2)Bon marehan did not show up upon receiving the Imam's messenger (unlike all Somali and non Somali clans summoned). And it took the Imam forcing them under threat of his army to join the Jihad (they were the only group the Imam had to take his soldiers and force them to join).

The English translation is imprecise and loses much of the edge in the original Arabic text, but you get the same idea:

[Voltage]

Bendover-

Maybe because I have a life, work, and am not here 24/7 engaging in childish epithets like a two year old?

Also, Marehan with the level of record, documentation, and confirmed glory do not need to waste their time with Isaaq inspired by jealousy and resentment that they are LITERALLY a footnote saying "possibly/probably.".

I am gob, gob dhalay gun doonayso inay rifto. As far as I have been confirmed, you aren't even in this conversation Mr. "Possibly/Probably." Continue trying inaad xoog ku gashid though.

[Ben Dover]

Where is your record?

You have nothing, you have been running around with a single article for years, and every single time one of you are asked to provide any mention/description from the (very detailed) original Arabic text copies you pull a runner.

Notice how you do not address the text above, describing the reality that your clan did not show up for Jihad willingly, only joining upon the threat of the arrival of the Imam with his soldiers. Your leaders pleading, calaacling, describing your poverty-stricken state. It was only then that you joined, not before.

The text also describes in detail how your leader Xiraabu Goita Teodorous (what a name!) murdered a boy squire, at which point the Imam chased him all the way to Hawiye country where Xiraabu fled as a refugee

Lets not mention how the bon marehan are described as bowmen in the Arabic text, again confirming their low status boon/midgan past.

There is a reason why you have not provided any source other than that single erroneous article, everyone can see that. Even this last post of yours, you clearly have nothing to add, probably preparing a quick exit

[X.Playa]

I corrected your nonsense and in response you’re deflecting from your lie in order to save face.

This method has defined your humiliating attempts in this thread.

somalidu waligeed ma maqal iidoor baa suldan guleed ka hor suldaan mise garaad lahaa.believe it or not,iidoor wuxuu dad noqday markuu cabdi ciise hogaanka u qabtay badhtamihii qarniga 1600s.

bal car wakaase meel kusheeg abtirsiinta saldanadii dhuux baraar,axmad gurey xuseen iyo garaad dhaaweyd cadayn miyaad haysaa.beeenbeen iyo taarikh gacan kurimis ah iska ilow .suldan guleed iyo aabihii cabdi ciise kahor iidoor waxba ma ahayn .labaduna waxay noolaayeen mar aan sii fogeyn 1650---1750

garaad dhaweyd wuxuu ahaa bartire.

Again you’re deflecting in order to save face..

If you were interested in sources you wouldn’t overlook the Arabic manuscript and the works of legimitate historians.

If Abtirsi was a correct method of pinpointing history, which it isn’t because anyone could concoct abtirsi out of thin air, then there wouldn’t be a discrepancy in your Dofaar Ismaciil abtirsi. Your alleged ancestor wouldn’t be alive at the same time as well established subclans that claim to be his descendants nor would maJAREERteen trace 35 oday to the alleged ancestor ‘Harti’ while the equal Dhillobadane and Wasakhgeli only trace 25.

Dhaweed is simply a name and that name exists in Gaadsan abtirsi. Are you going to claim that Gaadsan are Bartrire or Dofaar Ismaciil? I also came to find out that Dhaweed doesn’t exist in Bartire abtirsi.

Btw, Boqor Dhuux Baraar wasn’t a suldaan but a king. The title ‘sultaan’ was adopted when Boqor Dhuux Baraar was dethroned. The reason behind the name change was tyranny. Boqor Dhuux Baraar was allegedly a tyrant and people associated the title king with tyranny so it was replaced by the arabic term sultan.

Isaaq adopted Sultan that title when it became popularized by the Ottman empire , no Muslim has ever adopted the title sultan before the Ottmans. So it was adopted around the 1700s. Before that both Garaad and Boqor was used by the Isaaq. Never Ugaas.

[X.Playa]

1-

Notice the name in Arabic Is Xiraabuwa or Xiraabow never as he claimed Hiraabe or Hiraabo.

2- [imghttps://i.imgur.com/kTRCpD7l.jpg][/img]

In this version the spelling is obvious Habar Magaadle in some version ( recent versions its Habar Magaade) essentially the same how matter how you curt it , there is no question the clan refered to is the modern Habar Magaade or Magaadle.

3-

Now here where i have a problem , 612 Ramadaan thats Januray 1216. Ismaaciil Al Jabarti mentioned there was not even born during that century. Ismaaciil Jabarti was born in the middle of 1300s and died in 1404. Iam not sure when Aw Qudub the son of Abaadir ( sheekhaal) died , but i have a biography of Sheekhaal ancestory i have to check.

A son of Sheekh Isxaaq ( Arab) been alife at that time makes sense and also Yuusuf Al-Kawaynayn aka Aw Barkhadle.

4-

All these mentioned descendant of Sheekh Isxaaq , Ismaaciil Jabarti , Abaadir and his sons ( Aw Qudub buried in Sheekh) , Yuusuf Aw Barkhadle ( buried in the well known as Dhabar ) and Shariif Abdaal ( buried near Berbera) all these are hisotical personalities , my problem is the date Ismaaciil Jabarti is a 14-15 century perosn , his supposed son in the text Cabdiraxmaan Ismaaacil Jabarti doesn't belong there for Ismaaciil Jabarti never had a son by the name of Cabdiraxmaan.

5- Last poing a point which the Ogaden kid kept repeating , which was that Isaaq had no Garaads , the Habar Awal had Garaads till 1920, Garaad Askar been the last , preceded by Garaad Cabdulle who was around 70 in 1891 , preceded by Garaad Boon who was a contemprary of Suldaan Guuleed and Suldaan Diiriye sugulle etc.

[BestPlaya]

somalidu waligeed ma maqal iidoor baa suldan guleed ka hor suldaan mise garaad lahaa.believe it or not,iidoor wuxuu dad noqday markuu cabdi ciise hogaanka u qabtay badhtamihii qarniga 1600s.

bal car wakaase meel kusheeg abtirsiinta saldanadii dhuux baraar,axmad gurey xuseen iyo garaad dhaaweyd cadayn miyaad haysaa.beeenbeen iyo taarikh gacan kurimis ah iska ilow .suldan guleed iyo aabihii cabdi ciise kahor iidoor waxba ma ahayn .labaduna waxay noolaayeen mar aan sii fogeyn 1650---1750

garaad dhaweyd wuxuu ahaa bartire.

Again you’re deflecting in order to save face..

If you were interested in sources you wouldn’t overlook the Arabic manuscript and the works of legimitate historians.

If Abtirsi was a correct method of pinpointing history, which it isn’t because anyone could concoct abtirsi out of thin air, then there wouldn’t be a discrepancy in your Dofaar Ismaciil abtirsi. Your alleged ancestor wouldn’t be alive at the same time as well established subclans that claim to be his descendants nor would maJAREERteen trace 35 oday to the alleged ancestor ‘Harti’ while the equal Dhillobadane and Wasakhgeli only trace 25.

Dhaweed is simply a name and that name exists in Gaadsan abtirsi. Are you going to claim that Gaadsan are Bartrire or Dofaar Ismaciil? I also came to find out that Dhaweed doesn’t exist in Bartire abtirsi.

Btw, Boqor Dhuux Baraar wasn’t a suldaan but a king. The title ‘sultaan’ was adopted when Boqor Dhuux Baraar was dethroned. The reason behind the name change was tyranny. Boqor Dhuux Baraar was allegedly a tyrant and people associated the title king with tyranny so it was replaced by the arabic term sultan.

Isaaq adopted Sultan that title when it became popularized by the Ottman empire , no Muslim has ever adopted the title sultan before the Ottmans. So it was adopted around the 1700s. Before that both Garaad and Boqor was used by the Isaaq. Never Ugaas.

You're lying..you had no list of known gerads or boqors .just dhuuxur baraar

When isaaqs crowned their first suldan in early 1700s Marehan,Ogaden,Gudabirsi had their Ugaas.Suldan Guleed was a contemporary of Ugaas Magan ,Ugaas Diini and Ugaas Samatar of Gudabirsi.

Abokor ----Axmad Gurney's era
Mataan
Aadan
Dhamal
Ciise
Cabdi
Suldan Guleed

Makaahil(lived Axmad gurey era)
Ugaas Cali (born 1575)
Ugaas Cabdi
Ugaas Nuur
Ugaas Shirdon
Ugaas samatar


Yuusuf -----Hirabe(lived Axmad gurey era)
Xuseen
Khalaf
Ugas Sharmarke
Ugaas Guleed
Ugaas Faaraah
Ugaas Diini

Maxaadroob
Yuusuf
Xasan
Ugaas Khalaf
Ugaas xirsi
Ugaas Warfa
Ugaas Magan


Hortiina ayaa Ugaas la lahaa.Magaca Ugaas wuxuu bilowday immediately after Adal balse iidoor ninkii ugu horeeyay ee la caleemo saaro wuxuu ahaa Suldan Guleed.Intaa major,idoor Ugaas,Garaad iyo Boqor toona ma uu lahahayn ..that's a fact .

[BestPlaya]

Xildiid gaal baac buu iska soo dhihi

Most majerteens count 33 to Darood while Dhulos count 24---27 to Darood.THats OK.Don't force me to post the abtirsi iidoor that ends 17 names and another one that reaches 25!!!!

Ogaden has more sub clans with the name dhaweyd than Gaadsan but Garaad Dhaweyd Garaad Cisman was not Gaadsan nor Ogaden but rather he was Bartire

.OK.Dhuux baraar was the first and last king of isaaq.l agree but before him you had no garaad,ugaas or another boqor.Suldan Guleed was your first Suldan who was crowned in the mid of 1700s .As simple as that.

[X.Playa]

You are going in meaningless circle I just addressed all your point in my last post. Read before you regurgitated the same shit.

Last poing a point which the Ogaden kid kept repeating , which was that Isaaq had no Garaads , the Habar Awal had Garaads till 1920, Garaad Askar been the last , preceded by Garaad Cabdulle who was around 70 in 1891 , preceded by Garaad Boon who was a contemprary of Suldaan Guuleed and Suldaan Diiriye sugulle etc.

[BestPlaya]

.

[BestPlaya]

You are going in meaningless circle I just addressed all your point in my last post. Read before you regurgitated the same shit.

Last poing a point which the Ogaden kid kept repeating , which was that Isaaq had no Garaads , the Habar Awal had Garaads till 1920, Garaad Askar been the last , preceded by Garaad Cabdulle who was around 70 in 1891 , preceded by Garaad Boon who was a contemprary of Suldaan Guuleed and Suldaan Diiriye sugulle etc.

Get my point .


Garaad Boon was the first garaad and Suldan Guleed was the first Suldan .mana sii fogeyn raggan.qiyaastii 1750--1800 ayeey noolaayeen.Kahor waxba ma aadan ahayn.waadna Ogtahay.


Abtirsiinta Garaad dhaweydkii Habar maqdi or bartire


Garaad Cisman
Garaad Dhaaweyd---- Habr Maqdi garaad during Adal
Garaad Nuur
Garaad Dhaaweyd
Garaad Faarax ileey
Gaarad Aw madar
Garaad Caafi
Garaad Xirsi
Garaad Faarax----------------Suldan Guleed/Garaad boon
Garaad Xirsi(wilwaal)


Your first garaad and Suldan were one generation older than garaad wiilwaal who was the 16 or 17th garaad of Absame.

[luis1]

He conquered Ethiopia but he was killed by a portuguese soldier.

[X.Playa]

You are going in meaningless circle I just addressed all your point in my last post. Read before you regurgitated the same shit.

Last poing a point which the Ogaden kid kept repeating , which was that Isaaq had no Garaads , the Habar Awal had Garaads till 1920, Garaad Askar been the last , preceded by Garaad Cabdulle who was around 70 in 1891 , preceded by Garaad Boon who was a contemprary of Suldaan Guuleed and Suldaan Diiriye sugulle etc.

Get my point .


Garaad Boon was the first garaad and Suldan Guleed was the first Suldan .mana sii fogeyn raggan.qiyaastii 1750--1800 ayeey noolaayeen.Kahor waxba ma aadan ahayn.waadna Ogtahay.


Abtirsiinta Garaad dhaweydkii Habar maqdi or bartire


Garaad Cisman
Garaad Dhaaweyd---- Habr Maqdi garaad during Adal
Garaad Nuur
Garaad Dhaaweyd
Garaad Faarax ileey
Gaarad Aw madar
Garaad Caafi
Garaad Xirsi
Garaad Faarax----------------Suldan Guleed/Garaad boon
Garaad Xirsi(wilwaal)


Your first garaad and Suldan were one generation older than garaad wiilwaal who was the 16 or 17th garaad of Absame.

For 5 pages you were 100% sure Isaaq had no garaads now that you are embarrassed instead of giving up you change the goal post and claim they were recent! But that wasn't your argument at all lool.

This article is from 1874 where it states the habar awal had a Garaad. The Dhulbahante even claim Shirshoore was the first Garaad lool its like me claiming Garxajis was the first boqor of Garxajis lording over his constituents his wives , sons and camel, ridiculous.

You used the number argument to eliminate Ciise and Gedabursi arguing since they are small now they were insignificant in the 1500s, yet at the same time you are claiming Bartire a tiny tiny tiny nothing was something in the 1500s. Reality is all you have is a dude Called Dhaawad in the genealogy tree that means nothing.

Will Waal or any Daarood sub clan doesn't past the 8th or 9th sultan. Its the habit of Daarood out of sheer propensity for bragging they add a title to their genealogy and thus claim every ancestor of their garaads, ugaas were also chiefs. Good example are the warsangali who simply wrote down the genealogy of their Garaad and added " Garaad " before the name of every ancestor.

Even the Majeerteen sultanate the most famous of all Daarood began in early 1820s.