Who were the Habar maqdii/Habar Makadoor? Was Imam gurey from them?

[ZubeirAwal]

I've often heard the claim that imam Ahmad gurey bin Hussein as-Somali was from habar maqdii, and people have begun to resort to this claim as if it possesses a strong argument.

I was discussing this with a ciise and he kept using this argument and he finally provided his "evidence", a page from the Cairo manuscript copy of Muhammad bin Ibrahim, written in 1227 Hijri, of the original text from Al Faqih Shihabuddin Ahmad bin Abdal Qadir bin Salim bin Othman.

The "evidence":



I have actually transcribed it down for those who understand Arabic:

الى بلده وكان في الصوماا قبيلة اخرو يسمى هبر مقدى, كلن طلي منهم الإمام الزكاة
فمنعوها منه وقطعو الطريق وأفسد وال بلاد,فسار الإمام الى مكان يسمى رعبود بين بلاد المسلمين والبلاد الكفرة, كانه يريد بلاد الحيبشة ثم انشى رجعا الى بلاد الصومال وأفسدو البلاد فسارالإمام الى مكان يسمى رعبود بين البلاد المسلمين والبلاد الكفرة كأنه يريد للبلاد الحبشة, ثم انشى راجع البلاد وكان الصومال المفسدين فانهزم الصومال وتبعهم الإمام الى قريب من بحر ميسرة يوم, ونهب بلادهم نهبا ذريعاو و أخربها. وأنشى راجعا الى البلاد وكان الصومال الذين دخلوا على الإمام احمد والصلطان المتقدمة أورعي ابون مع الإمام كما ذكرونا أولا نهبت بلادهم قبيلة هبر مقدي الذين هزمهم الإمام فاشتكت قبيلة چري عند الإمام و قالت له انهم ما نهبوا بلادنا الا لكون انادخلنا عليك وصطحنا معك فتعب الإمام احمد ورتب عساكره وسار بلاد الصومال الى بلاد هبر مقدي

Translation:


"He returned to his country, and in it there was a certain Somali tribe that was called Habar Maqdii, the Imam would demand them to pay their Zakat but they refused. They would make a living by depending on robbery and banditry along the road, and they corrupted the land with their corruption.

The Imam then went to a place called Ra'boon, which was situated between the land of Muslims and the land of the kuffar, it was as if the Imam wanted to (take) the land of the habash, but then he returned once again to his country, and the mischievous, misbehaving, corrupt Somali (Habar Maqdii) were attacked by the Imam and he plundered them. He followed them to a place near the sea, marching for a entire day, and he plundered their lands and lay waste to them.

Then he returned to his former country, and the Somalis that raided the Habar Maqdii were along with him and then the tribe of Gurey (Habar Magaadle) complained to the Imam that they (Habar Maqdii) have only raided (us-Habar Magaadle) because of our position and alliance with you. (Imam Ahmad bin Ibrahim al Ghazi)

The Imam heard their complaints, and after the Imam and his troops rested, they travelled from the land of the Somalis, to the land of Habar Maqdii who were-(end of passage).




how can the Imam Ahmad gurey be from these savage gaal animals who don't even pay Zakat, when the tribe of the Imam gurey was complaining to the Imam Ahmad bin ibrahim al Ghazi that the only reason why habar maqdii was raising them (Habar Magaadle) was because of (Habar Magaadle) being allies to the Imam.

Wallahi I need to translate this book it will expose so many fraud qabils.

[Jabuutawi]

There is only one fallacy about your post, there are no "Habar..." clans in Ciise. Try again. We are not confused like you folks about our paternal lineage.

[dalalos101]

I've often heard the claim that imam Ahmad gurey bin Hussein as-Somali was from habar maqdii, and people have begun to resort to this claim as if it possesses a strong argument.

I was discussing this with a ciise and he kept using this argument and he finally provided his "evidence", a page from the Cairo manuscript copy of Muhammad bin Ibrahim, written in 1227 Hijri, of the original text from Al Faqih Shihabuddin Ahmad bin Abdal Qadir bin Salim bin Othman.

The "evidence":



I have actually transcribed it down for those who understand Arabic:

الى بلده وكان في الصوماا قبيلة اخرو يسمى هبر مقدى, كلن طلي منهم الإمام الزكاة
فمنعوها منه وقطعو الطريق وأفسد وال بلاد,فسار الإمام الى مكان يسمى رعبود بين بلاد المسلمين والبلاد الكفرة, كانه يريد بلاد الحيبشة ثم انشى رجعا الى بلاد الصومال وأفسدو البلاد فسارالإمام الى مكان يسمى رعبود بين البلاد المسلمين والبلاد الكفرة كأنه يريد للبلاد الحبشة, ثم انشى راجع البلاد وكان الصومال المفسدين فانهزم الصومال وتبعهم الإمام الى قريب من بحر ميسرة يوم, ونهب بلادهم نهبا ذريعاو و أخربها. وأنشى راجعا الى البلاد وكان الصومال الذين دخلوا على الإمام احمد والصلطان المتقدمة أورعي ابون مع الإمام كما ذكرونا أولا نهبت بلادهم قبيلة هبر مقدي الذين هزمهم الإمام فاشتكت قبيلة چري عند الإمام و قالت له انهم ما نهبوا بلادنا الا لكون انادخلنا عليك وصطحنا معك فتعب الإمام احمد ورتب عساكره وسار بلاد الصومال الى بلاد هبر مقدي

Translation:


"He returned to his country, and in it there was a certain Somali tribe that was called Habar Maqdii, the Imam would demand them to pay their Zakat but they refused. They would make a living by depending on robbery and banditry along the road, and they corrupted the land with their corruption.

The Imam then went to a place called Ra'boon, which was situated between the land of Muslims and the land of the kuffar, it was as if the Imam wanted to (take) the land of the habash, but then he returned once again to his country, and the mischievous, misbehaving, corrupt Somali (Habar Maqdii) were attacked by the Imam and he plundered them. He followed them to a place near the sea, marching for a entire day, and he plundered their lands and lay waste to them.

Then he returned to his former country, and the Somalis that raided the Habar Maqdii were along with him and then the tribe of Gurey (Habar Magaadle) complained to the Imam that they (Habar Maqdii) have only raided (us-Habar Magaadle) because of our position and alliance with you. (Imam Ahmad bin Ibrahim al Ghazi)

The Imam heard their complaints, and after the Imam and his troops rested, they travelled from the land of the Somalis, to the land of Habar Maqdii who were-(end of passage).




how can the Imam Ahmad gurey be from these savage gaal animals who don't even pay Zakat, when the tribe of the Imam gurey was complaining to the Imam Ahmad bin ibrahim al Ghazi that the only reason why habar maqdii was raising them (Habar Magaadle) was because of (Habar Magaadle) being allies to the Imam.

Wallahi I need to translate this book it will expose so many fraud qabils.

well done, but be objective, Ahmed Gurey was Somali end off, all the clans involved in the Jihad are respectable Somalis.

[dalalos101]

There is only one fallacy about your post, there are no "Habar..." clans in Ciise. Try again. We are not confused like you folks about our paternal lineage.

funny enough there are few in Marehan and one of them is called Habar Ciise

[Ben Dover]

There is no such thing as "Habar Makadoor" in Futuh, plain and simple. The entire Makadoor claim is based on a guess made by Richard Pankhurst (an expert on Ethiopia not Somali studies). Pankhurst cites I. M. Lewis, who was the foremost expert on Somali studies at the time, and Lewis clearly stated it was Habar Magaadle. In fact I. M. Lewis goes as far as saying there is no mention Gadaboursi clans in Futuh.

The oldest and most carefully copied manuscript clearly states Habar Magaadle, exactly as it is pronounced in Somali. Not a single manuscript copy has Makadoor.

This whole claim is based on nothing really.

[original dervish]

Benny.....have you just been released?

[ZubeirAwal]

There is no such thing as "Habar Makadoor" in Futuh, plain and simple. The entire Makadoor claim is based on a guess made by Richard Pankhurst (an expert on Ethiopia not Somali studies). Pankhurst cites I. M. Lewis, who was the foremost expert on Somali studies at the time, and Lewis clearly stated it was Habar Magaadle. In fact I. M. Lewis goes as far as saying there is no mention Gadaboursi clans in Futuh.

The oldest and most carefully copied manuscript clearly states Habar Magaadle, exactly as it is pronounced in Somali. Not a single manuscript copy has Makadoor.

This whole claim is based on nothing really.

Interesting, I haven't come to this page yet as I've only translated 11 pages so far out of 250 something, I was under the assumption that these were the Habar maqdaa being punished by the Imam.

I know makadoor is no where to be seen, but habar maqdaa seem to be road bandits and thieves that were punished.

[Ben Dover]

There is no such thing as "Habar Makadoor" in Futuh, plain and simple. The entire Makadoor claim is based on a guess made by Richard Pankhurst (an expert on Ethiopia not Somali studies). Pankhurst cites I. M. Lewis, who was the foremost expert on Somali studies at the time, and Lewis clearly stated it was Habar Magaadle. In fact I. M. Lewis goes as far as saying there is no mention Gadaboursi clans in Futuh.

The oldest and most carefully copied manuscript clearly states Habar Magaadle, exactly as it is pronounced in Somali. Not a single manuscript copy has Makadoor.

This whole claim is based on nothing really.

Interesting, I haven't come to this page yet as I've only translated 11 pages so far out of 250 something, I was under the assumption that these were the Habar maqdaa being punished by the Imam.

I know makadoor is no where to be seen, but habar maqdaa seem to be road bandits and thieves that were punished.

Yes, the aforementioned manuscript copy makes a clear distinction between Habar Magaadle, who were allies of the Imam and the first to join him, and Habar Maqdi who were bandits who refuse to pay Zakat and whom the Imam has punished severely for their marauding ways.

OD, cant allow the neo-faqash get too comfortable

[ZubeirAwal]

So far in 11 pages I have translated, I've seen how the Imam was being betrayed by the power hungry Sultan Abu Bakr bin Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr bin sa'ad-ud-din who wanted to vanquish the Imam because of his previous role as being part of the cavalry of Garaad Aboone Garaad Adosh/Adish, who was presumably killed by Sultan Abu Bakr albeit indirectly.

[ZubeirAwal]

Interesting how most of the time the sultan is mentioned, he's mentioned alongside the somalis who are fighting with him against the Imam and his warriors, and how the sultan Abu bakr took refuge in the somali lands after the Imam gained the upper hand albeit temporarily.


I'm wondering what tribe does this Sultan Abu Bakr bin Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr Bin sa'ad-ud-din belonged to?

[dalalos101]

Interesting how most of the time the sultan is mentioned, he's mentioned alongside the somalis who are fighting with him against the Imam and his warriors, and how the sultan Abu bakr took refuge in the somali lands after the Imam gained the upper hand albeit temporarily.


I'm wondering what tribe does this Sultan Abu Bakr bin Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr Bin sa'ad-ud-din belonged to?

Sa'ad Diin clan obviously, they established themselves in Zeylac and were among the first muslim families to establish a powerful foothold 800 years ago, they have been ransacked by habesha numerous times. Walashama dynasty, they also waged war against the Habesha, sometimes they had the upper hand other times they were subjugated.

[ZubeirAwal]

Interesting how most of the time the sultan is mentioned, he's mentioned alongside the somalis who are fighting with him against the Imam and his warriors, and how the sultan Abu bakr took refuge in the somali lands after the Imam gained the upper hand albeit temporarily.


I'm wondering what tribe does this Sultan Abu Bakr bin Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr Bin sa'ad-ud-din belonged to?

Sa'ad Diin clan obviously, they established themselves in Zeylac and were among the first muslim families to establish a powerful foothold 800 years ago, they have been ransacked by habesha numerous times. Walashama dynasty, they also waged war against the Habesha, sometimes they had the upper hand other times they were subjugated.

Why do darods and ciise/gadabursi claim their lineage?

This is from the book btw, from page 3 that I translated:

The author (May God have mercy on him) says:
I have been given the following information from a trustworthy eyewitness to the following accounts from Amir Hussein bin Abu Bakr Gaatariye and Ahmad-ud-Din bin Khalid bin Muhammad bin Khayr-ud-Din.
They mentioned to me the details regarding who the King Bar Sa’ad-ud-Din was, who was from amongst the Mujahideen that took control of the land of Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir. The narrator then mentioned that from among the sons of Sa’ad-ud-Din were:
Abu Bakr
Bedalaay

As for Bedalaay he has two sons, the first of the two being Muhammad bin Badleey, the grandfather of Sultan Othman Bin Sulayman. The second son of Bedalaay was Shams-ud-Din whose descendants no longer exist.
As for Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din, the brother of Badlaay, he had two sons, the first of them being Ali bin Abu Bakr, and he is the grandfather of Sultan Barakaat, Habib and Ali, the sons of Umar-Ud-Din bin Muhammad bin Dhahir-ud-Din bin Ali bin Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din.
As for the second of son of Abu Bakr, his name was Aazir bin Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din. It is to this Aazir that Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir descends from, who reigned in 937 A.H/1531 C.E.


Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr bin sa'ad-ud-din was the sultan of their dynasty during the time of Imam Ahmad bin Ibrahim al Ghazi, its clear to me Aazir isn't a somali name.

However in the following pages when it mentions the battles between the Imam and the sultan, that the somalis were always with the sultan fighting against the Imam, and the sultans amirs were mostly somali, I can tell from their names, Amir Garaad Cumaruddin, Amir Shinbiri, Amir Kooshin Abu Bakr.

[dalalos101]

Interesting how most of the time the sultan is mentioned, he's mentioned alongside the somalis who are fighting with him against the Imam and his warriors, and how the sultan Abu bakr took refuge in the somali lands after the Imam gained the upper hand albeit temporarily.


I'm wondering what tribe does this Sultan Abu Bakr bin Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr Bin sa'ad-ud-din belonged to?

Sa'ad Diin clan obviously, they established themselves in Zeylac and were among the first muslim families to establish a powerful foothold 800 years ago, they have been ransacked by habesha numerous times. Walashama dynasty, they also waged war against the Habesha, sometimes they had the upper hand other times they were subjugated.

Why do darods and ciise/gadabursi claim their lineage?

This is from the book btw, from page 3 that I translated:

The author (May God have mercy on him) says:
I have been given the following information from a trustworthy eyewitness to the following accounts from Amir Hussein bin Abu Bakr Gaatariye and Ahmad-ud-Din bin Khalid bin Muhammad bin Khayr-ud-Din.
They mentioned to me the details regarding who the King Bar Sa’ad-ud-Din was, who was from amongst the Mujahideen that took control of the land of Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir. The narrator then mentioned that from among the sons of Sa’ad-ud-Din were:
Abu Bakr
Bedalaay

As for Bedalaay he has two sons, the first of the two being Muhammad bin Badleey, the grandfather of Sultan Othman Bin Sulayman. The second son of Bedalaay was Shams-ud-Din whose descendants no longer exist.
As for Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din, the brother of Badlaay, he had two sons, the first of them being Ali bin Abu Bakr, and he is the grandfather of Sultan Barakaat, Habib and Ali, the sons of Umar-Ud-Din bin Muhammad bin Dhahir-ud-Din bin Ali bin Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din.
As for the second of son of Abu Bakr, his name was Aazir bin Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din. It is to this Aazir that Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir descends from, who reigned in 937 A.H/1531 C.E.


Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr bin sa'ad-ud-din was the sultan of their dynasty during the time of Imam Ahmad bin Ibrahim al Ghazi, its clear to me Aazir isn't a somali name.

However in the following pages when it mentions the battles between the Imam and the sultan, that the somalis were always with the sultan fighting against the Imam, and the sultans amirs were mostly somali, I can tell from their names, Amir Garaad Cumaruddin, Amir Shinbiri, Amir Kooshin Abu Bakr.

interesting, so you think the Walashama were not Somali ?

[ZubeirAwal]

Sa'ad Diin clan obviously, they established themselves in Zeylac and were among the first muslim families to establish a powerful foothold 800 years ago, they have been ransacked by habesha numerous times. Walashama dynasty, they also waged war against the Habesha, sometimes they had the upper hand other times they were subjugated.

Why do darods and ciise/gadabursi claim their lineage?

This is from the book btw, from page 3 that I translated:

The author (May God have mercy on him) says:
I have been given the following information from a trustworthy eyewitness to the following accounts from Amir Hussein bin Abu Bakr Gaatariye and Ahmad-ud-Din bin Khalid bin Muhammad bin Khayr-ud-Din.
They mentioned to me the details regarding who the King Bar Sa’ad-ud-Din was, who was from amongst the Mujahideen that took control of the land of Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir. The narrator then mentioned that from among the sons of Sa’ad-ud-Din were:
Abu Bakr
Bedalaay

As for Bedalaay he has two sons, the first of the two being Muhammad bin Badleey, the grandfather of Sultan Othman Bin Sulayman. The second son of Bedalaay was Shams-ud-Din whose descendants no longer exist.
As for Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din, the brother of Badlaay, he had two sons, the first of them being Ali bin Abu Bakr, and he is the grandfather of Sultan Barakaat, Habib and Ali, the sons of Umar-Ud-Din bin Muhammad bin Dhahir-ud-Din bin Ali bin Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din.
As for the second of son of Abu Bakr, his name was Aazir bin Abu Bakr bin Sa’ad-ud-Din. It is to this Aazir that Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir descends from, who reigned in 937 A.H/1531 C.E.


Sultan Muhammad bin Aazir bin Abu bakr bin sa'ad-ud-din was the sultan of their dynasty during the time of Imam Ahmad bin Ibrahim al Ghazi, its clear to me Aazir isn't a somali name.

However in the following pages when it mentions the battles between the Imam and the sultan, that the somalis were always with the sultan fighting against the Imam, and the sultans amirs were mostly somali, I can tell from their names, Amir Garaad Cumaruddin, Amir Shinbiri, Amir Kooshin Abu Bakr.

interesting, so you think the Walashama were not Somali ?

I'm not sure, because I havent seen any somali name themselves Aazir, but it has to be said, much of the Sultan's men, his in-laws, etc.. are Somali.