I support the independence of Somaliland.

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Gubbet
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I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Gubbet »

Disclaimer: This has no bearing on the principal of right to self-determination of pro-unionist parts of former British Somaliland. In the end, I would only support a universally acceptable final solution for all parties involved.

But yes, as a general matter, I now support the independence of Somaliland.

My experience there and my observations now, seeing how Somaliland is navigating the most troubling political headwinds it could possibly face, i.e. election turbulence; causes me to finally take the leap and extend my support.

Somaliland is not Somalia.

They love their country. They have shared purpose. They value their peace and stability.

More than all, they internalize their common destiny.

Somalia reflects none of that.

The decision Somaliland elders, politicians, and socio-cultural entities made in 1991 was prescient.

I now wholeheartedly support that decision.

This position is not sudden, but is the 3rd final development in a trajectory my viewpoint re: Somaliland has been undergoing.

In the following post I penned couple years ago, I described the previous stages:

1. I had long stopped taking a position on the actual war in the 80's because I had found such an action immoral (X amount died vs XX amount).

2. I had at the time of the writing stopped taking a position on the origins of rebellion, because I had found the action lacking moral superiority (rebellion vs dissent).
https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 5#p4968888

Speaking for myself, I have actually found that I am continuously evolving more moderate on the issue. I remember being very, very partisan where I would even debate the figures of casualties. A long time ago, I realized even if I wasn't heartless, the effect of that position was sheer callousness and disregard for human life. I made the decision never to provide a counter-argument or contest anything related to it because even if ONE PERSON was a casualty that was one too many.

I have since only tried to debate about the origins of the whole issue, trying to contextualize the government response---anything beyond that I end participation because it is inappropriate and inhumane for me to contest their experience with effects of the war.

Now, my evolution on this issue is actually at a stage where I find it inppropriate to even contest the origins of the issue itself! No one admires Aabe Siyaad more than I (or as much as anyone else) and to me he is a symbol and an example of Somali leadership at it's finest with his grit, vision, strength, and determination----but the reality is only God and his apostles are beyond reproach. Everything else about Mankind is subject to critique.

As fine as our leader, the contract that brought him to power was a Coup not a free and fair ballot. This means when rebellions started, they were never breaking something they co-signed to. They were not being "traitors" to the State, but If I must be fair, simply choosing to remove one "representation" of it without an original legitimate contract (i.e it was a coup).

Even if Aabe Siyaad was Mother Theresa X10, he would still be without an original legitimate contract unless a truly fair and free election took place that bestowed legitimacy on his leadership----as has happened in Nigeria for example (Obasanjo came by coup, then later come back again through fair elections).

So really, there is no legitimate reason for me to even try to contest the beginnings of rebellions because even if the gov had done 0 wrong---as long as it was in the state of being born from a coup and thereby without an original approved contract with the Somali people, then the method it came to power is justification enough for rebellion...even if it was the best of govs.

So I am actually moving to a place where I completely defer to reer Hargeisa on the entire circumstances.

For them to explain why they rebelled, why they chose armed combat, what they suffered, what effect it is continuing to have on them.

All of that is for them to tell me and us.

My role, I am starting to embrace, is to shut up and listen and practice humility and genuinely strengthen my empathy.
3. Now, after having long stopped contesting the process of the war in the North or questioning the legitimacy of its origins, I now find myself in support of the independence declaration of Somaliland in 1991.
BigBreak
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by BigBreak »

Thanks V, you have come to the right conclusion. There is no losses but only gains for Somalia in accepting SL independence but many Somalians are in denial for nasty narrow reasons.

Somaliland can't allow any FMS to leave Somalia once we finally get ictiraaf hence why I want HSM to centralize his country
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Xaraash
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Xaraash »

I'm not against it but they should also drop their claims on lands that don't want secession Sool & Sanaag.
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Khalid Ali
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Khalid Ali »

That’s very good and promising just don’t backtrack in the future and hold up to your principles it’s good that you have finally given up on the cancerous union which will never happen in this universe ever again . So it’s good wish al koonfurians wil think this way

Xayraan listen the majority of the people of sool have put their support behind somaliland it was just last week when when the somaliland army took the last strong hold of boocaame from buqland every one was silent why on earth would u think. The great dhulbahante people would want to b ruled by amisom and culusow makes no sense at all so get ur facts straight

Somaliland is here to stay cataash is a dhulbahante man and he opened his own party called waaberi in somaliland mad will most likely be a legitimate party very soon


La soco
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Xaraash »

Khalid Ali wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:21 am Xayraan listen the majority of the people of sool have put their support behind somaliland it was just last week when when the somaliland army took the last strong hold of boocaame from buqland every one was silent why on earth would u think. The great dhulbahante people would want to b ruled by amisom and culusow makes no sense at all so get ur facts straight

Somaliland is here to stay cataash is a dhulbahante man and he opened his own party called waaberi in somaliland mad will most likely be a legitimate party very soon


La soco
Dhulbahante may choose SL over PL but they're also unionists, so the solution can be through ballots where communities choose if they want to secede or remain.
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Khalid Ali
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Khalid Ali »

I think you live in the past. U talk about the early 2000s. There might have been unionists back then but this has totally changed. Besides choosing somaliland over puntland totally cancels wanting to be ruled from Mogadishu which is even more absurd just have a word with our resident original dervish he will tell you all about this
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by original dervish »

Independence or not we are bound up in Somaliland.
We are a distinct geographical area and a distinct people.
The area is a single political entity with demarcated boundaries.

The South in its present form is an existential threat to the peace and stability of Somaliland.

We are against anything that threatens the peace and stability of Somaliland....whether inside and outside of Somaliland. :D :sland: :up:
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Murax
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Murax »

Agree 100%

The weird Somaliland pretending Hawiye multinicker Big Break follows me around everywhere saying I support Somaliland independence because of hate of HSM love of Farmaajo. Well the below is a thread I made in FRIGGING 2010 supporting Somaliland independence before HSM or Farmaajo even existed in Somali politics! Since then I have even been more convinced. I observed Difference between Somalilanders, Koonfur is Koonfur talk Somalinimo but will kill you for your Dacas. Somalilanders publicly distance themselves from the rest of Somalia, but show more real meaningful Somalinimo then Koonfur.


https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 0&t=237965
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by BigBreak »

Murax wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:22 pm Agree 100%

The weird Somaliland pretending Hawiye multinicker Big Break follows me around everywhere saying I support Somaliland independence because of hate of HSM love of Farmaajo. Well the below is a thread I made in FRIGGING 2010 supporting Somaliland independence before HSM or Farmaajo even existed in Somali politics! Since then I have even been more convinced. I observed Difference between Somalilanders, Koonfur is Koonfur talk Somalinimo but will kill you for your Dacas. Somalilanders publicly distance themselves from the rest of Somalia, but show more real meaningful Somalinimo then Koonfur.


https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 0&t=237965
Naayaahee miyaad waalantahay marka hore? I have been here on Snet since 2012 a decade now and I have never claimed to be anything other than a Somalilander who is Isaaq, Garhajis, Cidagale. The only weirdos are those falsely giving me a different identity to what is my true self. PS Murax you're ciil with HAG post Farmajo has nothing to do with me so don't falsely call me Hawiye

Last and not least my point still stands, Murax is a flip flopper - he was an enemy of Somaliland/Isaaq when Failmaajo was in the VS bunker
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mahoka
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by mahoka »

Xaraash wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:38 am I'm not against it but they should also drop their claims on lands that don't want secession Sool & Sanaag.
Sool and sanaag are shared

Sanaag = hy, hj, warsangeli
Sool = dhulo, hj, hy, fiqishni (hj, hy and fiqishni are all fully SL while dhulo is half SL half Somalia.

Question is why should darod say be more important in that region than the non darod say?
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noer
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by noer »

ustad v. 110%

ustad xayran. we can discuss ssc. but understand. sland ain't the threat to the sovereignty n territorial integrity of somalia. the ex italian colony. wise qadadwen unionists know that ur sovereignty is threatened most by ISIL in magertenland, al shabab in the rest of ur country, n kenyan occupation of jubaland

accept somaliland's de facto divorce
n we can join Atmis. we can help u against the real spoilers threatening ur nation
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Xaraash
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Xaraash »

Khalid Ali wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:28 pm I think you live in the past. U talk about the early 2000s. There might have been unionists back then but this has totally changed. Besides choosing somaliland over puntland totally cancels wanting to be ruled from Mogadishu which is even more absurd just have a word with our resident original dervish he will tell you all about this
They may favor SL over PL but most of them have a thing for Mogadishu, and I think if they're choosing between SL and PL they may pick SL but if it's between Hargeisa or Mogadishu they will most likely pick Mogadishu so they can get their SSC dream, anyhow let the people vote for what they want and they can agree with your secession or be against it.
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by Xaraash »

mahoka wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:52 pm
Xaraash wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:38 am I'm not against it but they should also drop their claims on lands that don't want secession Sool & Sanaag.
Sool and sanaag are shared

Sanaag = hy, hj, warsangeli
Sool = dhulo, hj, hy, fiqishni (hj, hy and fiqishni are all fully SL while dhulo is half SL half Somalia.

Question is why should darod say be more important in that region than the non darod say?
Obviously I'm not talking about the whole region only Harti parts who I think most of them are against secession, and my point is let the people do what they want and let them decide.
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by STARKAST »

Reer hargeisa don’t be fooled

What’s stated is no one cares about the triangle being independent (which would not happen Anyways the world will not give a sub clan a country with un seat)

As for Harti lands these, these people are Muslim. For the few Down syndrome who want to be ruled by shiisheye in hargeisa they most likely garaac who need bribe money so enjoy your useless adoptions.
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OwQariib
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Re: I support the independence of Somaliland.

Post by OwQariib »

I highly doubt anything will change but we need closure. HSM mentioned finishing talks with SL as part of his manifesto but it's clearly not a priority task. I personally was hoping if it ever became a reality then it should have been Farmaajo to do it. We lost the claims to NFD and K5 under 2 Darod Presidents, let them take the blame for SL leaving the union too since the area hotly contested are Harti, since Hawiye is weak and sensitive in the propaganda war, dividing Somalia is not an accusation we would handle very well.
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