ny times article, ayaan hirsi and sexuality of women

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afdhere
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ny times article, ayaan hirsi and sexuality of women

Post by afdhere »

an interesting article. having met ayaan, i can say that she is definitely not the monster she is portrayed to be. a very feminine, delicate, nice girl... wallahi Shocked

one thing is for sure, muslim women MUST be allowed to choose their destiny... the way men are. equality must be now!

please join me... in fighting for women's rights by becoming a member of "equality now" - http://www.equalitynow.org/

afdhere

****************



How to Reconcile Islam, Sexuality and Liberty?

By ROGER COHEN

New York Times

For Seyran Ates, a Turkish-born German lawyer, the central problem of
Islam is sexual. "We have to deal with Islam's attempt to control the
sexuality of women, its refusal to accept that women have their own
sexuality and want to make their own choices," she said.

Ates, who practices law in Berlin and visited New York this week,
speaks with conviction. Many of her clients are battered Muslim
women, mainly Turkish immigrants in Germany.

They come to her because the men in their lives insist on control of
their sexuality - that they remain virgins until married, that they
agree to arranged marriages, that they do as bidden once wed - and
react with violence when denied.

Six recent "honor killings" in Berlin, where about 10 percent of the
2.5 million Turks in Germany live, have focused attention on a
culture of violent male repression of women in some Muslim immigrant
communities in Europe. The most talked-about case is that of Hatan
Sürücü, a 23-year-old single mother, gunned down near her Berlin home
in February.

Sürücü, the daughter of Turkish-Kurdish immigrants, was married off
to her cousin at 16, before fleeing her husband with her infant son
and attempting a form of emancipation.

She stopped wearing a veil; she drank alcohol; she dated; she trained
as an electrician. Then, according to the prosecution, her three
brothers killed her because her lifestyle was "a slight to the honor
of the family." The trial is ongoing.

"Such killings reflect the widely held view in Islam that the honor
of a man lies between the legs of a woman," Ates, a secular Muslim,
said. "It is not understood that the honor of woman lies in deciding
what she does with that."

Strong words, but this is no time to shrink from confrontation with
difficult issues between the West and Islam. A form of political
correctness has long contributed to a European habit of tolerating,
or being blind to, what went on within Muslim communities living
parallel to, rather than as part of, their adopted European
societies. The dangers of this approach have now become apparent in
various forms of violence.

Of course, the picture is not uniform. Many young Muslims, whether
retaining or renouncing Islamic identity, integrate into European
societies. A survey last year in Germany, commissioned by the
ministry responsible for women's affairs, questioned the stereotype
of oppression among young women from Muslim households and found a
majority preparing to pursue careers.

Beyond Europe, the place and image of femininity in Arab society vary
enormously, from the veiled and largely invisible women of Saudi
Arabia who are barred from exposing their hair or ankles outdoors, to
the scantily clad beauties on 24-hour Arabic rock-music channels or
the punchy professional women presenting the news and weather in
cities from Beirut to Casablanca.

The disparity is enormous between the late-night clubbing of cities
like Dubai, where men and women mingle, to the sexual apartheid that
leaves the public sphere to men in broad swaths of the Arab world and
subjects women to indignities ranging from harassment for immodest
dress to a stifling domestic oppression.

These very differences raise the question of whether the problem lies
in Islam itself - the Koran and the Prophet's sayings as embodied in
Shariah law - or whether the issue is rather how those texts have
been interpreted or perverted within some societies and communities
to justify the humiliation of women.

The answer is no doubt some of both. But that the Koran, read
literally, and in male-dominated cultures inclined to perpetuate that
domination, offers men the latitude to humiliate women and claim
God's blessing in doing so seems clear enough.

After all, the Holy Book allows men to marry four wives, beat them if
they are disobedient, dismiss women's legal testimony as less weighty
than men's, and insist on modesty in women's dress.

"Islam is a religion obsessed with sex and sexuality and limiting and
regulating that of women," said Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somalian-born
member of the Dutch Parliament living in hiding because Islamic
fanatics have threatened to kill her. "The religion was founded by
and in a tribal Arab desert culture, marked by distrust between
clans, and the only way to survive was to be in the tribe with more
male members, and that required protecting your women from
impregnation by others."

Hirsi Ali, who has worked with battered Muslim women in a Dutch
society shaken by several "honor killings" in the past year, believes
that "challenging sexual morals is the key to a better integration of
Islam in the West, because once you get rid of this neurosis, women
are no longer kept in the house, they can choose their own partner,
and a partner not necessarily of the tribe."

A lot more than sex and sexuality is at stake here. The group culture
that says a Muslim woman is not free to choose her mate or lifestyle
is an _expression of a value system that places extended family and
clan and ultimately the whole Islamic community, or umma, above the
norms, and often the laws, of Western societies.

That, in turn, can only exacerbate division and distrust that, in the
post-9/11 world, have proved the prelude to explosive violence.

Some European Muslims respond that it is the prejudice of Western
society that forces them into their own cultural islands, and that
Islam is the only authentic alternative they have to the
homogenizing, all-trampling force of Western modernity. Hence, they
say, the revival of Islam and, on the fringes, the growth of
fanaticism.

But an authentic culture is one thing, trampling on fundamental human
rights like the equality of men and women quite another.

"My clients," Ates said, "say their men beat them and then claim this
is allowed by the Koran, this is a man's role in the Koran, you must
accept the authority of the male, which is higher than that of women."

The time is ripe, more than ripe, for a Muslim Freud.
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Post by dhuusa_deer »

'EQUALITY' in the context of Islam is an oxymoron.

To begin with, Islam declares a WAR on the rest of humanity by the saying: Ther is no God but Allah. That says if you don't believe in Allah, then you're my enemy.

Pagans and atheist are to be put to death if they refuse to convert.

If you leave Islam, you're to be killed. Is there ANY religion in the world today that punishes apostasy? I can't think of one.

Women are tilths to ploughed by men who have a degree of advantage over them. and of course 'right hand possession' rights


and on and on.....
Last edited by dhuusa_deer on Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by *HannaH* »

I HATE these bittches.

I don't know who made her and the other lady..Waris a spokesperson for Somali/Muslim women.

They just need to shut the fukc up. As a Somali and Muslim (who curses sometimes..lol) woman.....I don't feel deprived of any of my rights as a woman or a human being. No real woman would, it's the chicken heads with nothing better to do that are always on this "Why Oh why me, why us Muslim women" trip.



FUKC THEM!...They can't speak for me. Nacalaa ku yaal.
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Post by afdhere »

hannah,

darling, you are one of the luckiest women alive Smile count your blessings.

women in the somali community -- even in the united states, canada and europe -- face multiple battle fronts that they usually lose. from female genital mutilation, to trafficking... from domestic violence to gender discrimination... millions of somali women are oppressed on a daily basis. the worst part about it is that many of these things are done by male family members. it is a sick, sick world. but it is a reality.

and, this, my friend, is a worldwide epidemic... beyond ALL religions, cultures and regions.

afdhere
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Post by SomeGuy »

Looks like sir afdhere came back with unleashed crusade against Islam and Somali straight folks. And the irony here is he is saying " it is sick world". I do agree, indeed, it is sick world as long as fags, like afdhere, are around here and preaching sodomy and the rights of biologically-erred creatures.


Someguy
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Post by Jazminda »

I wonder why u all wasting your time tea-table talking (chit-chatting) about the whole Ayan Hirsi blsht drama? Rolling Eyes

Maryooley runtii buufis baad wada qabtiin ileen idinkaaba ka neefinaya naag aan Islam ba aheyn. Rolling Eyes let her fry in hell!

CHEERZ Very Happy
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Post by AbdiWahab252 »

Another shining Harti !

Keep up the good work Afdhere.
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Post by *HannaH* »

Abdiwahab....prick.



Afdhere....I don't give a damn what you say darling, them bittches are not allowed to represent me, my mother,my sister, my cousins and my girlfriends. I don't know about anyone else.....Fukc Them...especially the Waris hoe....I mean, god damn.
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Post by LionHeart-112 »

This fag couldnt care less about women's rights. He is just trying to open more doors for his people (homos).
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Post by *HannaH* »

LH,

I'll have you know the gays are people too.
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Post by LionHeart-112 »

HannaH---and i will have you know they are people of hell.
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Post by QansaGabeyle »

Keep up the fight. Laughing Homosexuals always hide behind women issues.
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Post by LionHeart-112 »

[quote="QansaGabeyle"]Keep up the fight. Laughing Homosexuals always hide behind women issues.[/quote]

Sounds like you know that for a fact..do u have a gay brother? Laughing Laughing
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Post by afdhere »

Rolling Eyes

actually, in the world.. women suffer more than homosexuals. homosexuals have the perfect privilege to be in the closet about who they are. to remain safe... and happy... under the quiet walls of their houses. to be in partriarchal societies... where they can have access to men all the time Very Happy

unfortunately, women cannot hide who they are. and this is why we have a crisis in the world... where the most oppressed people are women.

i do think queer people do care about other oppressed peoples... because like martin luther king said... injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.


hannah, i don't think these women represent all women Smile obviously they don't claim to represent the elite... or women who are not oppressed, etc. but they do speak for a lot of women. women who cannot speak otherwise. for example, in holland, ayaan gets a lot of letters and phone calls from muslim women who tell her their plight. can you imagine... a woman in the west being honor killed... or trafficed... or raped... or abused by her own male relatives? these things happen. they happen to women of all walks of life-- from all corners of the world, and from all cultures.


afdhere
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Post by QansaGabeyle »

Lionheart, you are still pissed that I called you afdheere haye. Iga raali ahoow ninyahoow. I don't want a biopolar on my case. Laughing
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