Serious question to Islamic Intellectuals

[generalka]

Hello brothers and sisters. I just wanted to ask the intellectual Islamic community here in Somali net a really serious Islam related question. My question is about fate. Is fate (pre- destiny) clearly stated out in the Koran and Hadiths that it indeed does exist beyond a reasonable doubt? If yes, then here is my question.

If everything is predestined, than what is the prayer good for? Why do you stay awake all night praying to Allah, when everything is already planned out and "the ink has dried on the book". Also, isn’t it kind of unfair to non-Muslims to be punished when their fate was decided at the beginning of time? If a person was picked to be a kaafir, why punish him when he really has no control over it? Isn’t it a tad bit unfair? Do you know what I mean?

I have heard Hadiths in which it is told that everyone fate is already written and sealed never to be changed. I also heard Hadiths in which it is said that prayers after Salah are always granted. What if you pray that you don’t want something that was destined to happen to you doesn’t happen. Does that mean the prayer is granted and your fate is changed? Or does it mean your prayer isn’t granted and something happens to you anyway. Don’t those two scenarios contradict each other? Isn’t Islam supposed to be free of confusion and contradiction?

I just want clarity in this issue that’s all. Maybe I am just confused because it was really never fully explained to me and I just hope someone in here can help me out a little bit.

Salaam

[LionHeart-112]

I'm no intellectual but i will give you my understanding (which i hope is the right understanding) on the subject of fate.

Many people have tried to use the excuse that they don't need to pray, fast, pay charity etc.etc. because their fate, whther they will end up in hell or heaven is already pre-determined. THIS IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

Every1 will enter heaven byt the Mercy of Allah (swt) but what is said in Islam is that YOU DETERMINE WHETHER YOU GO TO HELL OR NOT. After His Mercy, its' your deeds (Camal) that will take you to either hell or Heaven. Every human being has FREE WILL. Allah (swt) is not making you do anything. If He were, then it would NOT be fair to judge on Yomul-Qiyamah. If u aint done it, why be judged? It's really simple. One of the 99 Attributes of Allah (swt) is Al-Cadl, which means the Just. He is the Fairest of All Judges. Allah will not wrong you, just don't wrong yourself.

What's pre-determined is the fate of the world. Things like when the world begings, when it ends, when Saacah (Judgement Day) will come, When Dajjal Appears, When Prophet are sent, etc.

May Allah (swt) forgive me if i have made any mistakes.

I hope that helps.

Fee Amaani Allah.

[generalka]

I understand what you are saying, however this is the first time someone has put it this way to me. What i know for sure is though, that my imaam explained it to me like this:

Everyones destiney is determined while they are in the womb. Angels come in and assign you to heaven or hell; you then proceed to pop out into the world as an assigned Kaafir or Muslim.

Can someone tell me if the above explanation is completely false or if it has some truths to it.

Thanks

[LionHeart-112]

generalka

U know u aren't the only confused by this hadeeth. It's from Arbaciin Nawawi ( i believe its the 3rd or 4th one). And u can't imagine how confused and hopeless this hadeeth made me feel. THIS IS THE MAIN REASON WHY UN-EDUCATED PEOPLE ON RELIGION SHOULD NOT BE READING RELIGIOUS BOOKS ON THEIR OWN AND MAKING THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION. LET THIS BE A WARNING TO EVERY1 WHO IS PICKING A BUKHARI AND STUDYING IT BY HIM/HERSELF. There is a reason why we have scholars people. I'm glad you consulted one, generalka but i'm afraid you may have misunderstood him or he wasn't educated enough to tell you the true meaning.

What the Angel writes, approximately 40 days after the child is conceived, is what the child is going to do. For example, the hadeeth says the angel will write down whether the child will grow up to be a happy or sad person. This doesn't mean Allah (swt) will either make you a happy or sad. This means Allah (swt) already knows what you will do and this is what the Angel writes down. Don't think of what the angel is writing down as a blue print for your life but rather like a diary of your life (what you will do) but before you are born. Allah (swt) had knowledge of the whole world before He even created it.

does that help?

[generalka]

yes it did thank you. By the way, i did come to the conclusion i had previously written, it was explained it to me like that by a shiekh.

Me No Speak Arabic

[LionHeart-112]

You are welcome bro. Glad i could help.

I don't speak Arabic either, well at least not fluently. That's why i'm re-learning now. U can do the same...the Language of the Qur'an and Jannah..it aitn a joke.

Peace

[dhuusa_deer]

Not a single thing lioness wrote is the truth, not according to Hadiths and the Quran. The verdict of both is suprisingly unanimous, both say (the hadith does a good job at explaining this point) we humans don't have free will and our fate is predetermined. It has to say that otherwise Allah CAN'T be omniscient.

An omniscient creator with free will, can create who ever he wants. Since before he creats each one of us he knows what our ultimate fate will be, he creates who he wants knowing full well they are either going to hell or heaven. Hence NOTHING we do will ever change that.

I will provide the Quranic verses and Hadiths tomorrow.

[Cawar]

I think your will is what really counts. When you hear a pre-determined destiny it only means that Allah has/had foreseen where every soul would end up when given the free will before it was even created and was sent to this world, all Allah did was to right down in his own book what the outcome is/was.....therefore he knows how you will end up and thats written somewhere but thats out of your choice . Just like how one would know a movie already seen and how it will end...nothing more or less!

I hope this might help.

[LionHeart-112]

[quote="dhuusa_deer"]Not a single thing lioness wrote is the truth, not according to Hadiths and the Quran. The verdict of both is suprisingly unanimous, both say (the hadith does a good job at explaining this point) we humans don't have free will and our fate is predetermined. It has to say otherwise Allah CAN'T be omniscient.

An omniscient creator with free will, can create who ever he wants. Since before he creats each one of us he knows what our ultimate fate will be, he creates who he wants knowing full well they are either going to hell or heaven. Hence NOTHING we do will ever change that.

I will provide the Quranic verses and Hadiths tomorrow.[/quote]



in the mean time, you will log in and out as DD AND SOMALI-DIM-LIGHT....

provide proof now or forever hold your trap shut.

[SomaliLight]

I can believe you are still trying to talk to these losers about whats in the quran, they can't read, you know that. besides lionshit only has coles notes on everything, do they make the quran on coles notes?

[LionHeart-112]

[quote="Cawar"]I think your will is what really counts. When you hear a pre-determined destiny it only means that Allah has/had foreseen where every soul would end up when given the free will before it was even created and was sent to this world, all Allah did was to right down in his own book what the outcome is/was.....therefore he knows how you will end up and thats written somewhere but thats out of your choice . Just like how one would know a movie already seen and how it will end...nothing more or less!

I hope this might help.[/quote]

I jsut said that. But thanx for repeating my ideas. Imitation is certainly the higheest form of flattery.

[dhuusa_deer]

Generalka,

Here are what the Quran and Hadiths say:


Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 430:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud:

Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise."

>>>Same is said in Bukhari 004.054.430; 004.055.549; 008.077.593; and 009.093.546

Al-Qur’an 010.099-100

YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.

>>>I repeat: NO SOUL CAN BELIEVE, EXCEPT BY THE WILL OF ALLAH!!!

More from the quran:

Al-Qur’an 076.029-030

YUSUFALI: This is an admonition: Whosoever will, let him take a (straight) Path to his Lord. But ye will not, except as Allah wills; for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

Al-Qur’an 017.013
YUSUFALI: Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck: On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open.

I'm out

[generalka]

[Quote]Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." [/Quote]

Thats the hadith i was looking for! Yes, Lionheart and bros please could you explain this hadith in detail. Simply reading it, i am under the impression that you are somehow assigned to hell before birth. If thats true, then shoudn't hell not exist?

Salaam

[biko]

i aint no scholar either but here are my two shiling!

i think the best way to understand your question is to take a leafe from the experience of adam and eve's.

Allah gave us all free will and the capacity to seek knowledge and wisdom and therefore to be able to chose between whats right and whats wrong; ( i also use think the same as you and that question always use to trouble me), but as it was for the father shall it also be for the children of adam (us). its there in black and white in the holly book that adam and eve were tested and failed the taste, then was trown out of janah before they were given a second chance on earth. Adam had all the knowledge he needed and new the three was forbiden, but yet went ahead to take a bite.

your question is the same as those that seem to put blame on allah for all the evils on earth, which in itself is a blatant abuse of that very same free will and not to mention the ungreatful attitude of those people who seem to be blinded by their desire while over looking the greater mercy of allah.

[gurey25]

This is my take on this subject and ofcourse i am no intelectual islamic or otherwise, just a simple mans understanding of this issue.
This doesnt have to be that complicated.


Without free will there is no point in judging humans,
no heaven or hell.
God gave us intelligence and self awareness plus Free will, thats what makes us different.

Now what i think is obvious what all the suras and hadiths qouted above
are saying is that Allah has knowledge of all.
Allahs "vision" lets say encompasses everything created, and since time and space are part of creation, Allah Knows your Future action, and fate
the same way as the present and Past.

You have been given intelligence and choice, but your every action
and every event in your life, the ones that you chose and the ones chosen for you are all mapped out.



Wa billahi atowfiiq.