Somalia: Splits emerging in Somali Islamist movement

The rebel · Post by **The rebel** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:21 am

Mike not that one the other one he quoted me from another Thread he posted the exact the very same topic he quoted from another forum.

Here it it is ..my reply to exactly this topic of his in another thread. I was insulted by him and called names which I really don't care. But tells a lot about his personality.

"[quote="The rebel"]" we need peace first, so these Mogadishu courts are doing a good job only if they would not use Islamic banner since there is nothing Islamic about what is going on in Somalia. ( Peoples Courts would be a catchy logo) Secondly, work with Dawa groups that are successfull in converting Moriyans to a Muslim, and thirdly educate the masses through media."

I swear, this is what I keep telling Islamists everywhere. Educate the people about Islam, build justice system, which there is no this; is my brother or neither uncle nor this I have the same Islam as his or mine. Prophet (PBOH) was preaching over 13 years in Mecca and as you know all Meccian verses deals with the basic of Islam ( wah- daneyat Allah) Al-Towheed. Allah revealed Quran not in a few days or few months/years but 23 years.

If we can learn anything from that, we learn that Prophet with order of Allah wanted to prepare them, teach them, and train them to the heavy duty of the Da'wah. We are today (as Muslims everywhere) we are in Jahiliya stage just how pagan Arabs were when Islam came, just without tans or camels. We are riding 2006 Mercedes and live in beautiful a houses, we go to school and carry higher degrees but reality we are in first Jahiliya (Jaheliyat al-olla). But creating courts without having educated judges, Lawyers, in both Islam law and civil law. First, create jobs or have such a social system (beyt zakat) to feed hungry people, before you chop their hands. That is cruel and against Islam. I would say no single Muslim country who is ready for Islamic law Â…Maybe Iran(I am not sure though)"

Gacalisa · Post by **Gacalisa** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:48 pm

I dont trust this Aweys guy or the so called "Islamic court", more I trust the butt kissing C/laahi.

They will not follow the Sunnah and the Qur'an in a valid way, but only follow the Salafi Sect, which is not the best to say.

i never trusted them, but at least they are better than warlords, but they will not make Somalia function properly and help islam rise, but will use "extreminism" as a source, and use the name of Allah in a unholy manner.

ISLAM DOES NOT PREACH VIOLENCE

Sir-Luggoyo · Post by **Sir-Luggoyo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:16 pm

All we are saying is, we have seen the outcome of secular, anarchy, warlordism and everything else, what is wrong with giving a chance to these Wadaado? So far, they have proven to be better than their predecessors, way better. Ppl in Mogadishu and environs are the living examples of the betterment of their situations, if we genuinely care about the wellbeing of the commom man, this is what he wants, this is his first taste of freedom, let's just wait and see what fate has in store for them. I am sure it will be much better than yesterday.

The Arabman · Post by **The Arabman** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:58 pm

"They will not follow the Sunnah and the Qur'an in a valid way"

Elaborate how to "follow the Sunnah and the Qur'an in a valid way."

michael_ital · Post by **michael_ital** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:39 pm

'Lisa, good point.

Lug, Fair enough. Let us wait and see.

Freakishly_Free · Post by **Freakishly_Free** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:44 pm

^How long have you lived in Somalia?

michael_ital · Post by **michael_ital** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:56 pm

Why do you ask?

Freakishly_Free · Post by **Freakishly_Free** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:01 am

I find it a bit suspicious that you care more about what happens in Somalia (and more importantly what somalis think of the developments in Mogadishu) than the average Somali. Something tells me that there is more to your curiousity than just general interest in world affairs. Wink

michael_ital · Post by **michael_ital** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:08 am

Then you should seek help for your paranoia. It can be troublesome. But please, indulge me here. What do you suspect the "more to my curiosity" is ??

Freakishly_Free · Post by **Freakishly_Free** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:13 am

I have made my suspicious about very clear. And apparently, whole lot of people share my concern. Not surprising of course.

Good night, CSIS agent 56432.

michael_ital · Post by **michael_ital** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:20 am

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, fock, you're full of them tonight, aintcha??? Laughing

quote " And apparently, whole lot of people share my concern" Right-o! Wink

Habeen Wanaagsan, Suspected terrorist # 12345

The Law26 · Post by **The Law26** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:51 am

Dalol

Listen mate, you are above circular arguments. Pick up some hints to my address to Salahuddiin.

Salahuddiin

I posted a long reply which was lost after I pushed the submit button, and it is a strange coincidence that the Moderators deleted my last post on a similar topic.

You asked me a serious complex question that IÂ’m not an expert into the subject, and have no magic solution coupled with the lack of clarity of how we come to an understanding of which strand of Sharia Laws? AweysÂ’s camp, the Taliban strand or Shariif ShaaykhÂ’s group and their approach that can lead us to a FINAL SOLUTION, and Islam in its purest form?

It was the methodology of our prophet Mohamed pbuh not to impose something on his Ummah until they were ready to receive it. Also, Muslims should have a say as to how they are governed. DonÂ’t misunderstand me, there are many positive things going for the people of Muqdishu by the Islamic Courts took over from the warlords, but It is equally important for those leaders to focus on positives approaches towards these Somalis as well. An excellent approach is a true Islamic education program to better the lives and knowledge of Somalis. Not less of it. Real Islam is a beautiful thing. It is neither aggressive, or violent and is fair to all.

However, the Taliban like minded Aweeys and his group want to take a short cut, or use Islam to gain followers among the frustrated and illiterate so they could accomplish their evil agendas. It is true that their victory may result in a situation worse for Somalis then they are currently in, but most Somalis are having difficult time picking the lesser of the two evils. Aweys and his mob don't hesitate to call takfir on those whom they do not agree with, and it is a recipe for disaster. Allah SWT directed us to be moderate, and not to be excessive in practice; to act in His Name to spread Islam in the manner of mercy, compassion and justice with the highest ethical and moral considerations. Why canÂ’t we extend that to our Somali brothers and sisters?

I will post more in my next visit, but many here make the fallacy to make the connection that the Golden Age of Islam when the levels of knowledge were a leap and set the standards for the western world to the Wahabi School of Islam, they were not part of it, and believe a cultural norm that is contrary to those Muslims who achieved that Islamic era.

Â“When it should be installed and how Somalia should be governed before that?Â”

I thought, we were only discussing in the South where the Â“Islamic CourtsÂ” got rid of the hostile warlords to them?

Only Allah SWT is eternal and it is He and His intent that we are meant to hold forever as our path to salvation.

According to the QurÂ’an, Allah SWT forbids sects:

[6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done.

[30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.

[42:14] Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.

Rebel

Listen mate, if you want to be respected in a Somali site like this, take it on the chin and don't complain like Basra. Dont fail that Somali initiation.

Let me ask you an Islamic question that many of us (Somali Muslims) dont understand clearly.

What is Sharia Laws and the sources? Qura'an, Sunnah, Ijma, to a lesser source Custom and etc. At present, why do the applicabilty of Sharia Laws differs from place to place?

Let us turn a negative vibe into a positive one.

The rebel · Post by **The rebel** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:00 am

Listen mate. I did not complain and never asked you to respect me. Go ahead and hit your head against the wall. All I asked you is to respect 'YOUR' self. Because the attitude of yours only hurts you no one else. You calling your self about proper shari'a and look what coming from your mouth? Who will take you seriously? No wonder every topic you open turns to name calling and children playground.

Moving on.....

The sources of Islamic Law every one knows including none Muslims. The question should be do Â‘weÂ’ agree with it all of us?

Â“What is Sharia Laws and the sources? Qura'an, Sunnah, Ijma, to a lesser source Custom and etc. At present, why do the applicabilty of Sharia Laws differs from place to place?Â”

Where did you see ShariÂ’a at present? Do you think What Saudi Arabia doing to the poor people ShariÂ’a? killing poor Africans and Asian , chop their hands and if Western does the same crime ..he is free is Shari'a?

I just turned 23 years old and in my life time haven't hear Islamic Shari'a applied in any place. as a whole system other than chopping hands or beheading adulterer. The funny thing in Islamic History the punishment wasn't an issue and their issue where more political disagreement. Majority of Islamic Khalifas Starting from Yaziid where alcaholics with few exception (Omar Ibn Abul Aziis and and few others). Those people including your self need to back to the history of Islamic empires and learn from them. Never was utopia. Those Sheikh are human they lack perfection just like every one else. Why you and other educated Somalis go to them and help them? Be part of the new Somalia, instead attacking them behind the screen?

Good luck man , you really need it.

I forgot to mention that I am semi happy with my tiny secular state. Atleast with this cruption they don't say "God" backs up thier corruption.

The Law26 · Post by **The Law26** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:44 am

Rebel

Takfir rained on me, and I asked you about Sharia Law, can you explain it?

Why do Somalis have to adopt the Saudi culture in regards to Sharia Laws?

The rebel · Post by **The rebel** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:14 am

[quote="The Law26"]Rebel

Takfir rained on me, and I asked you about Sharia Law, can you explain it?

Why do Somalis have to adopt the Saudi culture in regards to Sharia Laws?[/quote]

Salam Alaikom Law26

First let me apologize to you. My self I have bad temper and still dealing with it..lol

Islamic Law or what's known Shari'a taken from : The Qur'an, the Sunnah, Ijma' al olama(consensus), qeyas(analogy) , some add the orf. The last one is what really makes big defferent between one Islamic society to another. That what made Imam ShafiÂ’ change his mad-hab when he moved to Egypt. He saw people who are different from Arabia. He made changes his Ijtihad. That shows your point which I 100% undertand and agree with it.

As "Why do Somalis have to adopt the Saudi culture in regards to Sharia Laws?" They don't have to. Egyptian and other Arabs never adopted their cultural Islam. So I don't think Somalia is Saudi Arabia. You and I know the common denominator is Islam. Deeper still, it appears that we can't seem to come to any agreement about what Islamic law like. Do you agree with me that far? Then we are in the same page.

For the rest (Sir, Arab man, Aiman, Galol and co)

What Law saying is Â“ we already know about our problems. What we don't care to do is add the problems of the Arab Muslim culture or on top of existing tribal or cultural problems, we all ready have in SomaliaÂ”.

He is not anti-Islam, he canÂ’t be because he is Muslim and he is Somali and can't be again his people, canÂ’t be anti-self, can he?

*Law you can correct me if I misunderstood your point.