Mad Mac: I'm agree with that. Nothing can be determined about the real existence of this guy called Jesus. I think he existed and was a kind of crazy guy who said he was the jew Messiah (the prophet of God, or the guy sent by God to human kind) in the same way a lot of guys said before they were the Messiah. The jews had a punishment for the false Messiahs: death penalty. So when Jesus came and he said, not only that he was the Messiah, but the Son of God himself, the 'Pope' of the jews asked for him the death penalty. Because Romans were ruling Israel by then, and Israel was a Roman colony, they handed Jesus to Pilatus and asked him to crucify Jesus. Pilatus understood the whole story as a local fuss and handed Jesus to the jews. The jew king by then didn't see Jesus as a dangerous guy (actually, he made a lot of jokes about him), and handed him back to the Romans. When the jew theologians asked the death penalty for Jesus, Pilatus, wanted to know what was really happening with the whole story. And only when Jesus questioned the authority of the Caesar in Israel, Pilatus decided to crucify him as an advice against the 'zealots' (the revolutionary jew group which was terrorising Roman forces in the area--- probably Jesus was one of them). Crucifying was the punishment against thieves, murderers or people against the Roman empire.
But, as you well said, all what we know hasn't true sources nor documented facts.
What is real true is that the myth of Jesus being the son of a virgin and resucitating after his death comes from the Roman god Mitra, who was born on december, 24th, was the son of a virgin and resucitated after his death and used to practise 'miracles'. Substituting Mitra was the only way Jesus could fit into the Roman 'god-dom' in the 4th century.
Two state solution
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"Gedo. Actually, it was not Romans who had animosity against Jesus. It was jews, who felt disappointed with him when he said he was the Messiah and, at the end of the day, he couldn't prove that."
Kamal35,
I know that and that was my point. Similar to the corrupt Zionist-like Pharisees of the time of Jesus, the Zionists are instigating a war between 'Islam' and the West.
Notice I don't necesarily 'Muslims' because I will not deny there are a lot of Muslims that may have done wrong things. I am not absolving them from guilt. But I believe there will be a war about 'Islam' and how to eradicate it and maybe relegate it to the status of folklegends instead of a complete doctrinal way of life.
This is a very interesting parallel b/c the West is essentially the new Roman Empire.....everything from the culture, customs, to the Latin-based languages (even language/slang changes from father 2 son). Europa is even a Latin word. The Roman Empire was always diverse, consisted of people of different ethnicities, but the power was held for Romans. They ruled land either physically, or by proxy.
Anyways, I'm not relying on the Bible for the facts about Jesus' existence in whether he was born from a virgin mother, how he lived, how he (allegedly) died, because the Quran independently confirms the extent of the truth about Jesus from the Quran - God's word. What Paul says about Jesus cannot be trusted, as it is not even a first-hand source. That's why we get stuff like Father, son, Holy Ghost.
As far as I'm concerned, the only concrete truth about Jesus can be found in the Quran. And the Quran confirms that (if you want the verses let me know):
1. He was born miraculously.
2. He performed miracles
3. He was belied by the Jews whom he was sent to.
4. They plotted & instigated to kill him
5. He wasn't killed or crucified, but it appeared so.......and he was raised to heaven.
6. The Trinity is a myth.....Jesus will deny the Trinity on the Day of Judgement:
These verses indicate the corruption of those Pharisees and their taking the Romans as protectors & accomplices:
78. Those among the Children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of Dawûd (David) and 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). That was because they disobeyed (Allâh and the Messengers) and were ever transgressing beyond bounds.
79. They used not to forbid one another from the Munkar (wrong, evilÂdoing, sins, polytheism, disbelief, etc.) which they committed. Vile indeed was what they used to do.
80. You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers). Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them, for that (reason) Allâh's Wrath fell upon them and in torment they will abide.
81. And had they believed in Allâh, and in the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and in what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them (the disbelievers) as Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers), but many of them are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).
82. Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikûn (see V.2:105), and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.
Kamal35,
I know that and that was my point. Similar to the corrupt Zionist-like Pharisees of the time of Jesus, the Zionists are instigating a war between 'Islam' and the West.
Notice I don't necesarily 'Muslims' because I will not deny there are a lot of Muslims that may have done wrong things. I am not absolving them from guilt. But I believe there will be a war about 'Islam' and how to eradicate it and maybe relegate it to the status of folklegends instead of a complete doctrinal way of life.
This is a very interesting parallel b/c the West is essentially the new Roman Empire.....everything from the culture, customs, to the Latin-based languages (even language/slang changes from father 2 son). Europa is even a Latin word. The Roman Empire was always diverse, consisted of people of different ethnicities, but the power was held for Romans. They ruled land either physically, or by proxy.
Anyways, I'm not relying on the Bible for the facts about Jesus' existence in whether he was born from a virgin mother, how he lived, how he (allegedly) died, because the Quran independently confirms the extent of the truth about Jesus from the Quran - God's word. What Paul says about Jesus cannot be trusted, as it is not even a first-hand source. That's why we get stuff like Father, son, Holy Ghost.
As far as I'm concerned, the only concrete truth about Jesus can be found in the Quran. And the Quran confirms that (if you want the verses let me know):
1. He was born miraculously.
2. He performed miracles
3. He was belied by the Jews whom he was sent to.
4. They plotted & instigated to kill him
5. He wasn't killed or crucified, but it appeared so.......and he was raised to heaven.
6. The Trinity is a myth.....Jesus will deny the Trinity on the Day of Judgement:
These verses indicate the corruption of those Pharisees and their taking the Romans as protectors & accomplices:
78. Those among the Children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of Dawûd (David) and 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). That was because they disobeyed (Allâh and the Messengers) and were ever transgressing beyond bounds.
79. They used not to forbid one another from the Munkar (wrong, evilÂdoing, sins, polytheism, disbelief, etc.) which they committed. Vile indeed was what they used to do.
80. You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers). Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them, for that (reason) Allâh's Wrath fell upon them and in torment they will abide.
81. And had they believed in Allâh, and in the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and in what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them (the disbelievers) as Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers), but many of them are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).
82. Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikûn (see V.2:105), and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.
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The rebel
- SomaliNet Heavyweight
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MAD MAC
You know, as long as you we call ourselves a Muslims, and these ones Christians, and these one Jews, and those Americans, and the ones beside them African, and these north Korean and those south Korean, and me an Arab, and him a radical, and him moderate, and him a terrorist, and her a freedom fighter....as long as there is such a separation between us and them and those and theirs; there will always be fighting. I think that what life all about it.
Some times I just wonder why God would want us to focus on a differences, rather than a similarities is beyond me, but I do not claim to be very wise, so I focus mostly on the similarities.
There is one truth and it's objective. It's right VS. wrong. You know no one is winning in this war yet? Because both side aren't right. Muslims aren't good enough for victory. They have no plan farther than defeading Zionists. After that I asure you they will kill each other.
You know, as long as you we call ourselves a Muslims, and these ones Christians, and these one Jews, and those Americans, and the ones beside them African, and these north Korean and those south Korean, and me an Arab, and him a radical, and him moderate, and him a terrorist, and her a freedom fighter....as long as there is such a separation between us and them and those and theirs; there will always be fighting. I think that what life all about it.
Some times I just wonder why God would want us to focus on a differences, rather than a similarities is beyond me, but I do not claim to be very wise, so I focus mostly on the similarities.
There is one truth and it's objective. It's right VS. wrong. You know no one is winning in this war yet? Because both side aren't right. Muslims aren't good enough for victory. They have no plan farther than defeading Zionists. After that I asure you they will kill each other.
If Prophet Muhammad (saw), 6 centuries after Jesus copied the concept of Jesus from Christians and 'added it into the Quran', it makes absolutely no sense for him to differ so fundamentally with the Christians about Jesus.
If he wanted to 'grandfather' the Christians into his new religion, he would keep everything they knew about him intact...........not radically disagree on what - to them - were some core beliefs about Jesus (like the Trinity).
Otherwise, if he was adamant in starting a brand new religion, the logical thing for him to do would be to deny the whole existence of Jesus altogether, and relegate it to a pagan myth.
But there is absolutely no motive for him to confirm the existence of Jesus, but then totally differ with some of the core doctrinal beliefs that the Christians were believing about Jesus for 500+ years.
If Muhammad (saw) fabricated the Quran, it's a crime..........every crime has a motive........there is no identifiable motive for how he (Prophet Muhammad) differed with the Christians about Jesus.
If he wanted to 'grandfather' the Christians into his new religion, he would keep everything they knew about him intact...........not radically disagree on what - to them - were some core beliefs about Jesus (like the Trinity).
Otherwise, if he was adamant in starting a brand new religion, the logical thing for him to do would be to deny the whole existence of Jesus altogether, and relegate it to a pagan myth.
But there is absolutely no motive for him to confirm the existence of Jesus, but then totally differ with some of the core doctrinal beliefs that the Christians were believing about Jesus for 500+ years.
If Muhammad (saw) fabricated the Quran, it's a crime..........every crime has a motive........there is no identifiable motive for how he (Prophet Muhammad) differed with the Christians about Jesus.
The rebel,
technically, the Quran is a historical source as well, a perfect one. We are talking about the history of Jesus and even if you are not Muslim, the Quran is just as good a historical source as ANYTHING ELSE out there.
You know that even Christian Lebanese Arabic language experts who are NOT Muslims use the Quran as a source/evidence for proper Arabic grammar. Why?
Also, there is benefit in EVERYBODY hearing/reading ayahs of Quran....because we are all created by Allah, and the Quran is Allah's words.
technically, the Quran is a historical source as well, a perfect one. We are talking about the history of Jesus and even if you are not Muslim, the Quran is just as good a historical source as ANYTHING ELSE out there.
You know that even Christian Lebanese Arabic language experts who are NOT Muslims use the Quran as a source/evidence for proper Arabic grammar. Why?
Also, there is benefit in EVERYBODY hearing/reading ayahs of Quran....because we are all created by Allah, and the Quran is Allah's words.
Gedo: Interesting point here, although I have to disagree in some aspects. I won't focus on Al Quran, because I am non-muslim and I don't want to critizise a religion which is not mine, but to get into discussion, I have to say that there's a great myth about the personality of Jesus and some facts which were added to his life years and even centuries after his death. For example: the fact that he was born from a virgin. Even in the Bible you can read that he had brothers (and not brothers of religion, or spiritual brothers, but real brothers), so Maria couldn't be a virgin.
The virgin thing comes from the Persian (lately adopted by Romans) god Mitra or Mithra, who was really popular among Romans when first christians tried to spread a new 'religion' in Rome. Let's not forget that 'christianism' is a 'invented' concept. Jesus didn't bring a new religion, but pretended he was himself the Messiah of the jews. Those who didn't believe he was the Messiah remained jews and those ones who believed he was the Messiah converted into 'christians', which is a pervertion. If you believe Jesus is the Messiah of the jews, you will remain being jew, and believing that the Messiah of God finally came, but not convert yourself into a 'new religion'--- christianity. Don't forget that the jews are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah. What will happen when this Messiah comes? Will they convert into a new religion? No: they will be jews under the era of the Messiah.
So, christianity, from its roots, is a fake. Jesus never said: 'I'm bringing a new religion', but 'I'm here to change some aspects of jewishm', or 'I'm bringing here a new commandment to add to Moses 10 commandments: Love each others as I have loved you all'.
I actually think that Jesus, the real person, was crucified. Crucifying was, by that time, the most hienous way of killing someone. You could be hung up on a tree, beheaded or just stabbed to death, but crucifying implied public humilliation: being whipped, kicked, naked before being crucified. It was the punishment for robbery with great damage, murder or being against the Roman empire. When Jesus denied the authority of the Caesar on him, he was, actually, fighting against the Romans, and he deserved to be crucified according to the Roman law by that time. If Jesus wasn't crucified, the cross, the symbol of his sacrifice, would never be used by the first christians. Actually, if Jesus wasn't killed, his message would be useless: to be a jewish Messiah you had to acomplish the requirements for a Messiah: to complete the prophecies and to be sacrificed for the Human Kind.
What's true is that, for 79 years after his death, the existence of Jesus was ignored. Nobody talked about Jesus, nobody thought on him and his testimony was only kept by a bunch a very weird guys who created a sect, in the terms we know what a sect is today: secret sect with secret rituals which, in the beggining, included drinking real blood (the wine thing came later)--- I would dare to say that, actually, that was the reason the first christians were thrown to the lions in the Roman circus: for drinking blood and practising barbaric rituals. In Rome you weren't sent to the gladiators for worshipping this or that 'god': all kind of gods were allowed in Rome, so the haunt of christians for a religious reason is a fake.
Christianity was created by Paul, who perverted the real message of the person known as Jesus. Suddenly, for being a poor wanderer, he became the god of the heavens with an Army full of angry angels and extraordinary forces. People liked a god full of power and anger, so christianism spreaded little by little, first in the Middle East and then in the heart of the Roman Empire. But it wasn't until the 4th century, and after some christian meetings in which they determined the nature and history of this new god, when christianity reached Rome.
For me, christianity, from the very beginning, is the story of a big hoax.
The virgin thing comes from the Persian (lately adopted by Romans) god Mitra or Mithra, who was really popular among Romans when first christians tried to spread a new 'religion' in Rome. Let's not forget that 'christianism' is a 'invented' concept. Jesus didn't bring a new religion, but pretended he was himself the Messiah of the jews. Those who didn't believe he was the Messiah remained jews and those ones who believed he was the Messiah converted into 'christians', which is a pervertion. If you believe Jesus is the Messiah of the jews, you will remain being jew, and believing that the Messiah of God finally came, but not convert yourself into a 'new religion'--- christianity. Don't forget that the jews are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah. What will happen when this Messiah comes? Will they convert into a new religion? No: they will be jews under the era of the Messiah.
So, christianity, from its roots, is a fake. Jesus never said: 'I'm bringing a new religion', but 'I'm here to change some aspects of jewishm', or 'I'm bringing here a new commandment to add to Moses 10 commandments: Love each others as I have loved you all'.
I actually think that Jesus, the real person, was crucified. Crucifying was, by that time, the most hienous way of killing someone. You could be hung up on a tree, beheaded or just stabbed to death, but crucifying implied public humilliation: being whipped, kicked, naked before being crucified. It was the punishment for robbery with great damage, murder or being against the Roman empire. When Jesus denied the authority of the Caesar on him, he was, actually, fighting against the Romans, and he deserved to be crucified according to the Roman law by that time. If Jesus wasn't crucified, the cross, the symbol of his sacrifice, would never be used by the first christians. Actually, if Jesus wasn't killed, his message would be useless: to be a jewish Messiah you had to acomplish the requirements for a Messiah: to complete the prophecies and to be sacrificed for the Human Kind.
What's true is that, for 79 years after his death, the existence of Jesus was ignored. Nobody talked about Jesus, nobody thought on him and his testimony was only kept by a bunch a very weird guys who created a sect, in the terms we know what a sect is today: secret sect with secret rituals which, in the beggining, included drinking real blood (the wine thing came later)--- I would dare to say that, actually, that was the reason the first christians were thrown to the lions in the Roman circus: for drinking blood and practising barbaric rituals. In Rome you weren't sent to the gladiators for worshipping this or that 'god': all kind of gods were allowed in Rome, so the haunt of christians for a religious reason is a fake.
Christianity was created by Paul, who perverted the real message of the person known as Jesus. Suddenly, for being a poor wanderer, he became the god of the heavens with an Army full of angry angels and extraordinary forces. People liked a god full of power and anger, so christianism spreaded little by little, first in the Middle East and then in the heart of the Roman Empire. But it wasn't until the 4th century, and after some christian meetings in which they determined the nature and history of this new god, when christianity reached Rome.
For me, christianity, from the very beginning, is the story of a big hoax.
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The rebel
- SomaliNet Heavyweight
- Posts: 1423
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:46 pm
- Location: And you are asking... Why?
GB
I agree with you and by the way I put Bible highly just like i do to Quran tho I believe Bible was edit and deleted. Still grwat source of historical events. I love history so much. I am just crazy about History. That is exactly what took me out of Islam then when I learned more and more about history and other religions what made me back to Islam.
But MAD MAC's case he doesn't believe Quran in all. At least we believe the original Injeel and Tourah. The differences between us and them we believe their original books and all the prophets but they don't believe our book and our Prophet. He just needs other tactic to debate with him or would be just a waste of time.
I agree with you and by the way I put Bible highly just like i do to Quran tho I believe Bible was edit and deleted. Still grwat source of historical events. I love history so much. I am just crazy about History. That is exactly what took me out of Islam then when I learned more and more about history and other religions what made me back to Islam.
But MAD MAC's case he doesn't believe Quran in all. At least we believe the original Injeel and Tourah. The differences between us and them we believe their original books and all the prophets but they don't believe our book and our Prophet. He just needs other tactic to debate with him or would be just a waste of time.
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Steeler [Crawler2]
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 12405
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm
"technically, the Quran is a historical source as well, a perfect one. We are talking about the history of Jesus and even if you are not Muslim, the Quran is just as good a historical source as ANYTHING ELSE out there. "
No, it's not. The Qur'an was dictated more than 600 years after Jesus' death. Therefore, historically, it is irrelvent on the subject of Jeus. Mohammed never met him nor anyone else that might have ever known him.
And no historical source is perfect. So on this short paragragh you are oh for two.
"You know that even Christian Lebanese Arabic language experts who are NOT Muslims use the Quran as a source/evidence for proper Arabic grammar. Why?"
Cause it's in Arabic?
"Also, there is benefit in EVERYBODY hearing/reading ayahs of Quran....because we are all created by Allah, and the Quran is Allah's words."
I just ignore them for the most part. I have already read the Qur'an and concluded it's a fairy tale.
No, it's not. The Qur'an was dictated more than 600 years after Jesus' death. Therefore, historically, it is irrelvent on the subject of Jeus. Mohammed never met him nor anyone else that might have ever known him.
And no historical source is perfect. So on this short paragragh you are oh for two.
"You know that even Christian Lebanese Arabic language experts who are NOT Muslims use the Quran as a source/evidence for proper Arabic grammar. Why?"
Cause it's in Arabic?
"Also, there is benefit in EVERYBODY hearing/reading ayahs of Quran....because we are all created by Allah, and the Quran is Allah's words."
I just ignore them for the most part. I have already read the Qur'an and concluded it's a fairy tale.
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michael_ital
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 16191
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Taranna
"No, it's not. The Qur'an was dictated more than 600 years after Jesus' death. Therefore, historically, it is irrelvent on the subject of Jeus. Mohammed never met him nor anyone else that might have ever known him. "
600 years after the Prophet is 1400+ years ago, which is historical. Secondly, Paul hadn't seen Jesus either.
Technically, Muhammad did meet Jesus in his ascent.
600 years after the Prophet is 1400+ years ago, which is historical. Secondly, Paul hadn't seen Jesus either.
Technically, Muhammad did meet Jesus in his ascent.
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dhuusa_deer
- SomaliNet Super
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- Location: Canada
dhuusa dheer,
In the night journey to Jerusalem ( where he led the Prophets in prayer) & subsequent ascent to heaven, where he met some of the Prophets, including Jesus.
MAD MAC,
"I just ignore them for the most part. I have already read the Qur'an and concluded it's a fairy tale."
hmm....your assertion is very old ....sounds very similar to:
4. Those who disbelieve say: "This (the Qur'ân) is nothing but a lie that he (Muhammad SAW) has invented, and others have helped him at it, so that they have produced an unjust wrong (thing) and a lie."
5. And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."
6. Say: "It (this Qur'ân) has been sent down by Him (Allâh) (the Real Lord of the heavens and earth) Who knows the secret of the heavens and the earth. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Or say they: "He (Muhammad SAW) has fabricated it." Say: "If I have fabricated it, still you have no power to support me against Allâh. He knows best of what you say among yourselves concerning it (i.e. this Qur'ân)! Sufficient is He for a witness between me and you! And He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful."
10. And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked before you, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing that they used to mock at.
11. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Travel in the land and see what was the end of those who rejected truth."
25. And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old."
26. And they prevent others from him (from following Prophet Muhammad SAW) and they themselves keep away from him, and (by doing so) they destroy not but their ownselves, yet they perceive (it) not.
27. If you could but see when they will be held over the (Hell) Fire! They will say: "Would that we were but sent back (to the world)! Then we would not deny the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of our Lord, and we would be of the believers!"
28. Nay, it has become manifest to them what they had been concealing before. But if they were returned (to the world), they would certainly revert to that which they were forbidden. And indeed they are liars.
29. And they said: "There is no (other life) but our (present) life of this world, and never shall we be resurrected (on the Day of Resurrection)."
30. If you could but see when they will be held (brought and made to stand) in front of their Lord! He will say: "Is not this (Resurrection and the taking of the accounts) the truth?" They will say: "Yes, by our Lord!" He will then say: "So taste you the torment because you used not to believe."
In the night journey to Jerusalem ( where he led the Prophets in prayer) & subsequent ascent to heaven, where he met some of the Prophets, including Jesus.
MAD MAC,
"I just ignore them for the most part. I have already read the Qur'an and concluded it's a fairy tale."
hmm....your assertion is very old ....sounds very similar to:
4. Those who disbelieve say: "This (the Qur'ân) is nothing but a lie that he (Muhammad SAW) has invented, and others have helped him at it, so that they have produced an unjust wrong (thing) and a lie."
5. And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."
6. Say: "It (this Qur'ân) has been sent down by Him (Allâh) (the Real Lord of the heavens and earth) Who knows the secret of the heavens and the earth. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Or say they: "He (Muhammad SAW) has fabricated it." Say: "If I have fabricated it, still you have no power to support me against Allâh. He knows best of what you say among yourselves concerning it (i.e. this Qur'ân)! Sufficient is He for a witness between me and you! And He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful."
10. And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked before you, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing that they used to mock at.
11. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Travel in the land and see what was the end of those who rejected truth."
25. And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old."
26. And they prevent others from him (from following Prophet Muhammad SAW) and they themselves keep away from him, and (by doing so) they destroy not but their ownselves, yet they perceive (it) not.
27. If you could but see when they will be held over the (Hell) Fire! They will say: "Would that we were but sent back (to the world)! Then we would not deny the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of our Lord, and we would be of the believers!"
28. Nay, it has become manifest to them what they had been concealing before. But if they were returned (to the world), they would certainly revert to that which they were forbidden. And indeed they are liars.
29. And they said: "There is no (other life) but our (present) life of this world, and never shall we be resurrected (on the Day of Resurrection)."
30. If you could but see when they will be held (brought and made to stand) in front of their Lord! He will say: "Is not this (Resurrection and the taking of the accounts) the truth?" They will say: "Yes, by our Lord!" He will then say: "So taste you the torment because you used not to believe."
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