faces of u.s. muslim and jewish dissent

[afdhere]

salam, everyone,

the following article has been published in the well-respected christian science monitor. the writer, a muslim, quotes me and other progressive muslim friends.

afdhere

*****

from the August 04, 2006 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0804/p03s02-ussc.html

Faces of US Muslim and Jewish dissent

Those who disagree with their faith groups on the Mideast crisis keep silent or band together.

By Omar Sacirbey | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

Hamza Khan knows the price he pays for supporting Israel. A few years ago, he was impeached as president of his high school Muslim Student Association for suggesting a condolence letter be sent to the Israeli Embassy after a suicide bombing. Since then, he's received hate mail for his unabashedly pro-Israel views.
Today, as Israel's bid to vanquish Hizbullah militants in Lebanon enters its fourth week, the college sophomore is again at odds with the majority of his fellow Muslim-Americans who condemn Israel for using disproportionate force that has killed nearly 650 Lebanese civilians.

That means he stays silent in conservative circles. "If I were to speak out, I think it would be ugly," he says.

Amid tense relations between Muslim and Jewish communities in America over the current conflict, dissent is scarce. But if war has strained interfaith dialogue, it hasn't stamped out intrafaith debate, observers say. Indeed, dissenters in both communities say that there's a growing willingness to consider the fighting from the other side's point of view.

"When something big happens in the Middle East, it creates a more tense environment in general, and one of the most surprising things is that it creates tension within religious/ethnic groups, almost as much as it does between groups," Vicki Armour-Hileman, a rabbinical student at Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion in Los Angeles, wrote in an email interview.

Jewish-American groups opposed to Israel's policies toward the Palestinian territories say their ranks have swelled recently with those opposed to Israel's bombing.

"I think this is a pivotal moment in the Jewish peace movement," says Cecilie Surasky, spokeswoman for Jewish Voice for Peace in Oakland. "This is energizing people who were being quiet before." Over 2,000 people have joined the group's e-mail list since fighting began, bring the total to 15,000.

In Boston this week, some two dozen Jews wore black clothes and lay motionless at the South Station train terminal to protest Lebanese civilian losses from Israel's bombing campaign. The signs on their chests read: "Not all Jews support Israel's actions!"

The demonstration drew its share of counter-protests. "Most Jews do support Israel," one yelled. But many stopped to thank them for taking a stand against the aerial attacks.

"I have to endure some shouts; it's little compared to what people in Lebanon endure," said protester Marjorie Kent. "So I'll take the shouts."

Insults have been hurled online and at demonstrations across the country. Last week, a gunman claiming to be a Muslim-American killed one person at the Jewish Federation building in Seattle, while at a rally supporting Israel in suburban Detroit, a Jewish driver side-swiped a Lebanese-American counter-demonstrator, nearly hitting her, according to ArabAmericanNews.com.

Images of the war have so far cemented solidarity in Jewish- and Muslim-American communities. "There is always some fractiousness within the Jewish community," says David Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee in New York. "But if Israel's very existence is at stake, then petty partisan differences are easily put aside and the community rallies with its full support behind Israel."

Muslim-American leaders say the same for their community. "I think it's had a tremendous unifying effect in bringing Muslims of all persuasions together," says Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington.

Indeed, Muslim dissent has been rare. But comments from those who do speak out in support of Israel reflect the community's growing acceptance of Israel's place in the Middle East.

"I have no reason to believe that Israel is not doing anything but just protecting itself from forces that are using homes north of it to bomb northern Israel," says Zuhdi Jasser, who is active with the Muslim community in Scottsdale, Ariz. He regrets the loss of life in Lebanon but says Israel is taking precautions to spare civilians.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations says it does not reject the existence of Israel, but it does reject Zionism, the philosophy on which it says Israel is based. Many Muslim-Americans, while perhaps not agreeing with how Israel was created, have come to accept Israel - and a two-state solution for Israelis and Palestinians.

"Most accept Israel as a reality that they are willing to work around to achieve their No. 1 concern, which is the well-being of the Palestinians," explains Shahed Amanullah, editor of AltMuslim.com. But there are also Muslims whose support for Israel runs deeper. "My main difference with the majority of Muslims is the belief that a Jewish homeland is an important progress for all of us, especially one in their ancestral land of Israel," says Afdhere Jama, a writer in San Francisco, in an email interview.

Muslims in the United States must decide whether they see groups like Hamas and Hizbullah as legitimate resistance or the cause of Muslim troubles in the region, says Mr. Amanullah.

"When the dust settles, there will be a big debate about the role of these militias." Amanullah says. "But as long as Israel continues to bomb, that debate will take a back seat to the civilian death toll."

• Luis Andres Henao in Boston contributed to this report.

[COSTA]

How you see if you take Katyusha Rocket in your ass

[afdhere]

costi mujaliwa,

a what?

afdhere

[gurey25]

Oh if it isnt our very own Somali zionist fag.

one question.

why are you a zionist, you are not a jew?
why do care more for the saftey of isreal than others?

were you jilted by some arab fags?

or maybe its those evil muslims ëxtremists" who hate isreal

[afdhere]

gurey,

i'm not a zionist. i don't know if you are aware of it but zionism is a racist concept. and for the record, read the qur'an. it tells you that god gave israel to jews (see, 5:21-25).

... but that is not why i want a jewish israel. again, if you don't know, jews have lived in that land for thousands of years. all sorts of nations who are now "arabs" (like syria, iraq, lebanon, etc) have all exiled jews from there. in fact, one in particular, assyria, exiled more than 70% of the jews. and not only that but scattered so far ends of the world that today places like somalia and ethipia have jews. (the falasha and the yibir, etc.)

so, a jewish state in the middle east is a humanitarian fight... not just religious.

and, no, i don't just care for israel but all of humanity. likewise, i want a palestinian state-- with self rule, self control and 100% independent.

and fyi, arab fags have been nothing but kind to me. so i don't have any problem with them. and arab people in general i don't mind but i can't stand arab governments like the saudi family who somehow try to arabize everyone in the world, including us faradheer.

afdhere

[gurey25]

Humanitarian fight?

thats hilarious.

Whats so special about jews living in Palestine/Isreal thousend of years ago? every country in the world experienced changes in population, populations are never static.

The hungarians came from the steppes, the zulus and xhosa were immigrants from the congo, displacing the poor san bushmen, and hotetntos.

Somalis replaced the various pre-somali populations.

The oromos replaced and assimilated allot of indegenous ethnic groups,
and expanded territory.



Popultions have been in flux since time imemorial, so why was it necesary to create isreal illegali and immorally in a land that already had people, and where not under thier own control.
The only reason Isreal exists today is becuase the Ottoman empire joined the wrong side of the forces in World war 1.


Now i am saying that the creation of the state of isreal was immoral.

but also the destruction of Isreal is also immoral(probably gonna get cyber-lynched for this)

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="gurey25"]:lol:

Now i am saying that the creation of the state of isreal was immoral.[/quote]


How so? Isreal was created the same way of most nations -- at the behest of colonial masters. It was British that decided, rightly or wrongly, to split historical palestine into jewish state and arab state. That plan got the nod from the UN as well.


How then is the creation of Israel anymore immoral than creation of say Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Vietnam etc etc?

[afdhere]

gurey,

you are being unfair here. the populations you mentioned are people who migrated. jews have been MOVED.

what is so special about jews? god. they believed in god. most prophets came through them. god had chosen them. ("inii fathaltikum 3ala el-3aalameen, as qur'an says.)

no, one, i repeat NO ONE... had experienced the same injustices the jews have. the middle east owes the jews big time. from the maghreb to the shaam, to the khaliji and to the persians and turks, jews have been persecuted, exiled and murdered... for thousands of years.

it is highly unfair to say the creation of a state that they continously lived in for thousands of years is "immoral." why, so that arabs who moved them can keep the whole land to themselves? i would say the later is much more immoral, that is if you are truly interested in the equality of all human beings.

afdhere

[gurey25]

ahh but you are looking at 1947-48

I was talking about the conquest of palestine, its occupation and control by the british, and the Balfour decleration that opened the door for jewish immigration.

without the balfour decleration and massive jewish immigration supported and authorized by the british, isreal would not exist.

between the first migrants from europe, which they call the first aliya
in the early 1900's till the balfour decleration of 1921, they only made
about 10% of the population.

after 1921 and massive jewish immigration they still made up less than half the population.

[afdhere]

dhuusa, exacty remember, we as somalis have lose our peoples' lands in what is now ethiopia and kenya.

afdhere

[dhuusa_deer]

Gurey,

Do you know the "original" partition plan of historical palestine was along population densities. THe predominently jewish areas were to become Israel and vice-versa Palestine.


The occupation is whole different can of beans.

[afdhere]

gurey, interesting. would you also be kind to mention the exiling of the jews in the 1700s by the ottoman?

as far as we look back, jews are always getting exiled. and depending on what kind of a muslim or arab rules them, sometimes they are allowed to come back. for example, an ottoman ruler allowed jews to return from spain. this created many, many cities in the north. (markaas yuhuudu waxay ka bateen in ka badan boqolkiiba lixdan!) but just a few centuries later, another one kicked them out to the maghreb.

afdhere

[afdhere]

dhuusa, exactly. and the larger state would have been arab. but god forbid the good arabs should allow jewish self rule

afdhere

[gurey25]

populations have alwasy been in flux.

people have been moved all the time,.

so why should the jews be allowed to recreate thier state on a land that already has people, and a poeple under occupation?

and afdhere the arabs didnt move the jews, the comming of islam was htier golden age.

The assyrians moved them, the perisans allowed them back,
then the romans destryoyed them and they were never allowed back, till
the muslims came .

Jews were barred from jerusalem by the byzantine, and the temple mount was the city's garbage site.

100 years after the muslims take jeruslam then you see a city with a large jewish population.

[afdhere]

also, gurey, whether they live in exile thousands of miles away or next country, jews always say "next year in jerusalem." this is because that is their homeland. it is the central focus of their peope and their faith, not to mention the root of their culture. imagine khaliji arabs without mecca

afdhere