"Yeah, Gedo. But my point here is that Al Quran is based on the Torah and the Christian Bible, I mean: The Book. Muhammad asked for respect to the people of the Book, whoever they were muslims, christians or jews. (One thing that I don't see here, by the way). "
The Quran is not based on the Torah or the Bible........it's not a 2nd edition, a revised or expanded edition.
People see the similarities in SOME parts of the Bible, Quran, and Torah and assume that the Quran is based on the Torah.
Here's my analogy:
If I tell you a secret message & I keep a paper copy of that same message....and you tell that secret message to generation upon generation.....up to the (say 20th generation.........and I make sure that the paper copy of my message is preserved and makes it to some people in the 20th generation. What you will have are 2 messages that resemble each other somewhat, but one is historically older because people knew about it.
The paper copy message is more accurate because it hasn't been distorted, but people will think the paper message is based on the message that was passed down by word of mouth for 20 generations. People will even go as far as to say that the paper message is a cheap copy of the message passed down by word of mouth.
That would be wrong, especially when the paper message is a MORE accurate account of the message.........a perfect one, in fact.
"The Adam & Eve myth is a failure in all sides. Is impossible. It can not be. It's against any logic on this Earth. "
Honestly, I don't know the details behind how Adam/Eve created more children.........I could research it or ask a knowledgable person.
If you were witnessing the creation of Adam/Eve, their initial stay in Heaven, and their subsequent placement on Earth.......the last thing that would amaze you is how they produced children.
Look at the size and the magnitude of the universe & beyond.........from the macro to the micro......that is truly a greater feat than getting mankind to come from 1 mother & 1 father. This is what the Quran says:
"The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not."
Why we tolerate this imbecile infidel uttering filth....
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"If you were witnessing the creation of Adam/Eve, their initial stay in Heaven, and their subsequent placement on Earth.......the last thing that would amaze you is how they produced children.
Look at the size and the magnitude of the universe & beyond.........from the macro to the micro......that is truly a greater feat than getting mankind to come from 1 mother & 1 father. This is what the Quran says:
"The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not."
-----------------> I'll come back to the Adam and Eve issue later, but I was really interested on this point you brought here, especially about: "Look at the size and the magnitude of the Universe & beyond".
Completly agree here, mate. And that's exactly my point. I don't name it Allah. Actually, for me It has no name, no gender, wasn't born, is not a father. For me It's a What instead a Who.
Let's agree on calling it Allah. Ok. For me, the true laws of Allah are the laws of the Universe, not the laws of the man. The Law of Gravity is a Law by Allah. The movement of the seas, the fire, the attraction of the unversal masses, the law of relativity. Those are the true laws of Allah for me. Not the moral laws. Not the good and the evil thing. Not how to behave with modesty or how to wear a hijab. That, in my opinion, is simple tradition brought to the condition of 'sacred law' for a group of men.
I find confusing why -I only read Al Quran in a Spanish translation, so it could be a error in traslation- Allah is consider a He in Al Quran. Can Allah have gender? No from my point of view -don't forget I am non-muslim-. But muslims, like Christians and jews, talk about him like 'someone' who's watching you all the time, listening to you, and who will judge you at the end of the times. I can't believe in this theory, because I think Universe is much much much much more than that.
For example, and this is what amazes me. We all are human beings. But there's no a human being just exact to another. There are not two human beings exactly the same. But not only human beings. Fingerprints. Animals. Zebras. There's no a zebra equal to another. Nor a tree. Nor a rose. Even there's no a single water drop exact to another.
What do I want to say? We, all, everything, are variations of the same formula. Everything is a variation with only a little of matter. Like music. We have seven musical notes. But we can compose symphonies, operas, requiems or hip-hop songs. Always with the same notes. Just making variations with seven sounds we can compose the 9th symphony by Beethoven or a punk song.
Same for the Universe. With little elements, everything was created. And everything is a variation.
Did you know that we share the 98% of our DNA with a fly. And that we share 99.98% of our DNA with a chimpancee? Only that 00.02% make us different from a chimpancee.
That's amazing for me.
Those laws are, in my opinion, the laws of what you call Allah.
But they have nothing to do with the moral laws of the religions. In my opinion, Allah doesn't know anything about good and evil. IT only knows about: BE, EXIST, HAPPEN.
Look at the size and the magnitude of the universe & beyond.........from the macro to the micro......that is truly a greater feat than getting mankind to come from 1 mother & 1 father. This is what the Quran says:
"The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not."
-----------------> I'll come back to the Adam and Eve issue later, but I was really interested on this point you brought here, especially about: "Look at the size and the magnitude of the Universe & beyond".
Completly agree here, mate. And that's exactly my point. I don't name it Allah. Actually, for me It has no name, no gender, wasn't born, is not a father. For me It's a What instead a Who.
Let's agree on calling it Allah. Ok. For me, the true laws of Allah are the laws of the Universe, not the laws of the man. The Law of Gravity is a Law by Allah. The movement of the seas, the fire, the attraction of the unversal masses, the law of relativity. Those are the true laws of Allah for me. Not the moral laws. Not the good and the evil thing. Not how to behave with modesty or how to wear a hijab. That, in my opinion, is simple tradition brought to the condition of 'sacred law' for a group of men.
I find confusing why -I only read Al Quran in a Spanish translation, so it could be a error in traslation- Allah is consider a He in Al Quran. Can Allah have gender? No from my point of view -don't forget I am non-muslim-. But muslims, like Christians and jews, talk about him like 'someone' who's watching you all the time, listening to you, and who will judge you at the end of the times. I can't believe in this theory, because I think Universe is much much much much more than that.
For example, and this is what amazes me. We all are human beings. But there's no a human being just exact to another. There are not two human beings exactly the same. But not only human beings. Fingerprints. Animals. Zebras. There's no a zebra equal to another. Nor a tree. Nor a rose. Even there's no a single water drop exact to another.
What do I want to say? We, all, everything, are variations of the same formula. Everything is a variation with only a little of matter. Like music. We have seven musical notes. But we can compose symphonies, operas, requiems or hip-hop songs. Always with the same notes. Just making variations with seven sounds we can compose the 9th symphony by Beethoven or a punk song.
Same for the Universe. With little elements, everything was created. And everything is a variation.
Did you know that we share the 98% of our DNA with a fly. And that we share 99.98% of our DNA with a chimpancee? Only that 00.02% make us different from a chimpancee.
That's amazing for me.
Those laws are, in my opinion, the laws of what you call Allah.
But they have nothing to do with the moral laws of the religions. In my opinion, Allah doesn't know anything about good and evil. IT only knows about: BE, EXIST, HAPPEN.
Kamal35,
Read the first few verses of sura 75:
3. Does man (a disbeliever) think that We shall not assemble his bones?
4. Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.
Isn't this a reference to the fact that fingerprints are NOT the same?
The people who used to reject the Prophet Muhammad always used to ask: "How will our bones be put together after we die and they are rotten?"
Allah says that not only are we able to assemble their bones back, but the tips of their fingers (which are UNIQUE for EVERYONE) can even be perfectly reconstructed.
Do you think this verse is a coincidence in the Quran? Who knew in the 7th century that fingertips are unique for each individual?
Read the first few verses of sura 75:
3. Does man (a disbeliever) think that We shall not assemble his bones?
4. Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.
Isn't this a reference to the fact that fingerprints are NOT the same?
The people who used to reject the Prophet Muhammad always used to ask: "How will our bones be put together after we die and they are rotten?"
Allah says that not only are we able to assemble their bones back, but the tips of their fingers (which are UNIQUE for EVERYONE) can even be perfectly reconstructed.
Do you think this verse is a coincidence in the Quran? Who knew in the 7th century that fingertips are unique for each individual?
As far as the He of Allah.........that's just a language issue.
Don't people refer to Spain or the USA as her?
as in: "Spain will regain her glory?"
Is there something feminine or masculine about Spain? NO.
Also, when Allah refers to Himself, He sometimes uses 'WE'.........this does not mean God is many, but it is a structure of language as well.
In old times, kings often use 'WE' to indicate majesty, power, glory, prestige etc.
Don't people refer to Spain or the USA as her?
as in: "Spain will regain her glory?"
Is there something feminine or masculine about Spain? NO.
Also, when Allah refers to Himself, He sometimes uses 'WE'.........this does not mean God is many, but it is a structure of language as well.
In old times, kings often use 'WE' to indicate majesty, power, glory, prestige etc.
[quote="Gedo_Boy"]Kamal35,
Read the first few verses of sura 75:
3. Does man (a disbeliever) think that We shall not assemble his bones?
4. Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.
Isn't this a reference to the fact that fingerprints are NOT the same?
The people who used to reject the Prophet Muhammad always used to ask: "How will our bones be put together after we die and they are rotten?"
Allah says that not only are we able to assemble their bones back, but the tips of their fingers (which are UNIQUE for EVERYONE) can even be perfectly reconstructed.
Do you think this verse is a coincidence in the Quran? Who knew in the 7th century that fingertips are unique for each individual?[/quote]
Good point. But it was known. Greeks knew that 500 years before Jesuchrist. That was not new at that time. In the same way Greeks knew that sperm was the origin of life (Al Quran states that it's a drop of water and blood, which is a clear metaphore of sperm).
I said here some times before: Al Quran is a metaphoric book. Muhammad spoke in a metaphoric way all the time. That's the reason he spoke verses, poetry, not literal statements. The problem now is that there's a mainstream of 'sheiks' trying to spread the idea that Al Quran is a literal book. It is not, in my opinion. Remember: "There are univoque ayas (literal ayas) and 'equivoque' ayas (metaphoric ayas)"
Read the first few verses of sura 75:
3. Does man (a disbeliever) think that We shall not assemble his bones?
4. Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.
Isn't this a reference to the fact that fingerprints are NOT the same?
The people who used to reject the Prophet Muhammad always used to ask: "How will our bones be put together after we die and they are rotten?"
Allah says that not only are we able to assemble their bones back, but the tips of their fingers (which are UNIQUE for EVERYONE) can even be perfectly reconstructed.
Do you think this verse is a coincidence in the Quran? Who knew in the 7th century that fingertips are unique for each individual?[/quote]
Good point. But it was known. Greeks knew that 500 years before Jesuchrist. That was not new at that time. In the same way Greeks knew that sperm was the origin of life (Al Quran states that it's a drop of water and blood, which is a clear metaphore of sperm).
I said here some times before: Al Quran is a metaphoric book. Muhammad spoke in a metaphoric way all the time. That's the reason he spoke verses, poetry, not literal statements. The problem now is that there's a mainstream of 'sheiks' trying to spread the idea that Al Quran is a literal book. It is not, in my opinion. Remember: "There are univoque ayas (literal ayas) and 'equivoque' ayas (metaphoric ayas)"
Kamal
You are in a different league than Mad Mac, Dalol and the bigoted idiots like them, and at the sametime you are right about bigoted idots like Aiman-previously known as Biscuito girl for Arabs. They all are the different sides of the same coin. Free speech comes with individual responsibility, and not to insult any group. The only group protected in Europe are Jews, and the buzz word is anti-semitism. In Europe today, critising Israeli policies and actions are being equated as anti-semitic. Don't blame Aiman and his folks who are simple Somalis?
They attract these guys, and posses zero intellect to know not to provoke them. No human can insult Allah SWT, but they are simple people not to know that. Both sides are of the same coin. You are not.
You are in a different league than Mad Mac, Dalol and the bigoted idiots like them, and at the sametime you are right about bigoted idots like Aiman-previously known as Biscuito girl for Arabs. They all are the different sides of the same coin. Free speech comes with individual responsibility, and not to insult any group. The only group protected in Europe are Jews, and the buzz word is anti-semitism. In Europe today, critising Israeli policies and actions are being equated as anti-semitic. Don't blame Aiman and his folks who are simple Somalis?
They attract these guys, and posses zero intellect to know not to provoke them. No human can insult Allah SWT, but they are simple people not to know that. Both sides are of the same coin. You are not.
Ofcourse Greeks could know that sperm is the origin of life. It's very simple to know that. You could know that from trial & error.
A woman starts having male sperm in her and she suddenly gets pregnant.
When she was a virgin maiden, she never had babies......a pattern develops.
However, when the Quran talks about it, it talks about the stages that a embryo/fetus go through, qualitatively ofcourse.
That is something that couldn't be known w/out X-rays & microscopes......because it is too microscopic to tell.
Even if they had a human lab where they ripped the wombs of women open they couldn't tell that.
A woman starts having male sperm in her and she suddenly gets pregnant.
When she was a virgin maiden, she never had babies......a pattern develops.
However, when the Quran talks about it, it talks about the stages that a embryo/fetus go through, qualitatively ofcourse.
That is something that couldn't be known w/out X-rays & microscopes......because it is too microscopic to tell.
Even if they had a human lab where they ripped the wombs of women open they couldn't tell that.
Well, here's a Wikipedia entry about the knowledge of the fingerprint.......It only goes back to the 1800s
Timeline
There is no clear date at which fingerprinting was first used. However, significant modern dates documenting the use of fingerprints for positive identification are as follows:
* 1823: Jan Evangelista Purkyne, a professor of anatomy at the University of Breslau, published his thesis discussing 9 fingerprint patterns, but he did not mention the use of fingerprints to identify persons.[citation needed]
* 1880: The Scot Dr Henry Faulds published his first paper on the subject in the scientific journal Nature in 1880.[citation needed] Returning to the UK in 1886, he offered the concept to the Metropolitan Police in London but was dismissed.[citation needed]
* 1892: Sir Francis Galton published a detailed statistical model of fingerprint analysis and identification and encouraged its use in forensic science in his book Finger Prints.[citation needed]
* 1892: Juan Vucetich, an Argentine police officer who had been studying Galton pattern types for a year, made the first criminal fingerprint identification.[citation needed] He successfully proved Francisca Rojas guilty of having murdered after showing that the bloody fingerprint found at the crime scene was hers, and could only be hers.[citation needed]
* 1897: World's first Fingerprint Bureau opens in Calcutta (now Kolkata) India after the Council of the Governor General approved a committee report (on 12 June 1897) that fingerprints should be used for classification of criminal records.[citation needed] Working in the Calcutta Anthropometric Bureau (before it became the Fingerprint Bureau) were Azizul Haque and Hem Chandra Bose.[citation needed] Haque and Bose are the Indian fingerprint experts credited with primary development of the fingerprint classification system eventually named for their supervisor, Sir Edward Richard Henry.[citation needed]
* 1901: The first United Kingdom Fingerprint Bureau was founded in Scotland Yard.[citation needed] The Henry Classification System, devised by Sir Edward Richard Henry with the help of Haque and Bose, was accepted in England and Wales.[citation needed]
* 1902: Dr. Henry P. DeForrest used fingerprinting in the New York Civil Service.[citation needed]
Timeline
There is no clear date at which fingerprinting was first used. However, significant modern dates documenting the use of fingerprints for positive identification are as follows:
* 1823: Jan Evangelista Purkyne, a professor of anatomy at the University of Breslau, published his thesis discussing 9 fingerprint patterns, but he did not mention the use of fingerprints to identify persons.[citation needed]
* 1880: The Scot Dr Henry Faulds published his first paper on the subject in the scientific journal Nature in 1880.[citation needed] Returning to the UK in 1886, he offered the concept to the Metropolitan Police in London but was dismissed.[citation needed]
* 1892: Sir Francis Galton published a detailed statistical model of fingerprint analysis and identification and encouraged its use in forensic science in his book Finger Prints.[citation needed]
* 1892: Juan Vucetich, an Argentine police officer who had been studying Galton pattern types for a year, made the first criminal fingerprint identification.[citation needed] He successfully proved Francisca Rojas guilty of having murdered after showing that the bloody fingerprint found at the crime scene was hers, and could only be hers.[citation needed]
* 1897: World's first Fingerprint Bureau opens in Calcutta (now Kolkata) India after the Council of the Governor General approved a committee report (on 12 June 1897) that fingerprints should be used for classification of criminal records.[citation needed] Working in the Calcutta Anthropometric Bureau (before it became the Fingerprint Bureau) were Azizul Haque and Hem Chandra Bose.[citation needed] Haque and Bose are the Indian fingerprint experts credited with primary development of the fingerprint classification system eventually named for their supervisor, Sir Edward Richard Henry.[citation needed]
* 1901: The first United Kingdom Fingerprint Bureau was founded in Scotland Yard.[citation needed] The Henry Classification System, devised by Sir Edward Richard Henry with the help of Haque and Bose, was accepted in England and Wales.[citation needed]
* 1902: Dr. Henry P. DeForrest used fingerprinting in the New York Civil Service.[citation needed]
Yeah, but you're talking about fingerprints as a police method to identify people. I was talking in a completly different way: that there are not two equal fingerprints.
Greeks knew about the specific notion of individuality. Plato mentioned fingerprints in one of his 'Dialogues' as a example of individuality. I should look for the book to find the exact quote, but it doesn't make my point wrong.
Greeks knew about the specific notion of individuality. Plato mentioned fingerprints in one of his 'Dialogues' as a example of individuality. I should look for the book to find the exact quote, but it doesn't make my point wrong.
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michael_ital
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 16191
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Taranna
Best I could come up with:
The Question:
Where does fingerprinting come from?
The Answer:
There is evidence that links man's first discovery of fingerprints back to 3000 B.C. in Egypt.
However, as a means of positive identification, the science of fingerprinting came into its own in the 19th century.
There are overlapping claims as to who ought to get the credit; apparently, it was an idea whose time had come. In 1856, Sir William Herschel—an English magistrate in India—began requiring fingerprints on contracts, but it's not clear that he ever used them to identify criminals. In 1880, Dr. Henry Faulds of Scotland published a paper on the use of fingerprints for identification, but he was unable to interest law enforcement in the idea. In 1883, Mark Twain's Life on the Mississippi included the identification of a murderer using a fingerprint. (He would use the same trick again in his 1894 novel, Pudd'nhead Wilson.)
Starting in 1888, Sir Francis Galton began publishing works about fingerprints, identifying patterns, creating a system of classification, and determining that the odds of two people having the same fingerprint were vanishingly small, thus making them suitable for forensic work. The first to actually use his system to convict a criminal was Argentine police officer Juan Vucetich, in 1892. The Henry classification system, devised by Sir Edward Richard Henry in 1896-7, enabled prints to be classified and sorted; it was adopted by Scotland Yard in 1901, and became the ubiquitous method of classifying fingerprints from then until the computer age.
To learn more about the future of positive identification, follow this link to information about DNA fingerprinting.
http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/histor ... rints.html
The Question:
Where does fingerprinting come from?
The Answer:
There is evidence that links man's first discovery of fingerprints back to 3000 B.C. in Egypt.
However, as a means of positive identification, the science of fingerprinting came into its own in the 19th century.
There are overlapping claims as to who ought to get the credit; apparently, it was an idea whose time had come. In 1856, Sir William Herschel—an English magistrate in India—began requiring fingerprints on contracts, but it's not clear that he ever used them to identify criminals. In 1880, Dr. Henry Faulds of Scotland published a paper on the use of fingerprints for identification, but he was unable to interest law enforcement in the idea. In 1883, Mark Twain's Life on the Mississippi included the identification of a murderer using a fingerprint. (He would use the same trick again in his 1894 novel, Pudd'nhead Wilson.)
Starting in 1888, Sir Francis Galton began publishing works about fingerprints, identifying patterns, creating a system of classification, and determining that the odds of two people having the same fingerprint were vanishingly small, thus making them suitable for forensic work. The first to actually use his system to convict a criminal was Argentine police officer Juan Vucetich, in 1892. The Henry classification system, devised by Sir Edward Richard Henry in 1896-7, enabled prints to be classified and sorted; it was adopted by Scotland Yard in 1901, and became the ubiquitous method of classifying fingerprints from then until the computer age.
To learn more about the future of positive identification, follow this link to information about DNA fingerprinting.
http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/histor ... rints.html
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LionHeart-112
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 17794
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:53 pm
- Location: Not yet determined
Avowedly Stupid got his ass handed to him by Ceelgaabo and Alluring. Masha'Allah.
And our rising star and educated brother Gedo has shows what a moron MAD Infidel really is. He is ignorant of basic Islam and history and like DD loves to twist words and run away from every argument while hurling pathetic insults.
As usual, Kamalito has nothing to contibute but repeat the same sad story about how he believes there is a God but can't accept hell and heaven. One day, you won' t have. Allah will make that choice for you and hopefully you will end up in the same place whose existed you denied your entire life.
Great to see people following in my footsteps. I kind of got tired of this whole kaafir karbasshing thing. It's time to dust the whip again.
I can't believe i missed this post.
And our rising star and educated brother Gedo has shows what a moron MAD Infidel really is. He is ignorant of basic Islam and history and like DD loves to twist words and run away from every argument while hurling pathetic insults.
As usual, Kamalito has nothing to contibute but repeat the same sad story about how he believes there is a God but can't accept hell and heaven. One day, you won' t have. Allah will make that choice for you and hopefully you will end up in the same place whose existed you denied your entire life.
Great to see people following in my footsteps. I kind of got tired of this whole kaafir karbasshing thing. It's time to dust the whip again.
I can't believe i missed this post.
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