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im haber jeclo

and yes you should complety wrte off the aqiil ibn imran talk becuase it is clearly fantasy..

that there were arabs intermingling with somalis before islam , yes
this is becuase of the ports of zeylac, berbera, etc were full of arab, persian and indian traders
and mixing is a natural result..

but claiming back to the bani hashim at that early stage is fantasy..
hiil was simply the proginator or leader of a political grouping of nomadic cattle herding somalis
as opposed to the urbanized , agricultural somalis that were skilled workers.

they defeat and destruction and ensalvement of that part of the somali population is probably the source of the thus named baidari clans.


i believe we merge with the other closer cuchites like the oromo much much earlier..

James Dahl wrote:

gurey25 wrote:im interested in the pre-clan period of the somalis.

all the clans including dir go back no later than 600 AD.

what were th somalis before then...
this is facinating.

I am too, it's difficult because I believe the true ancestry of Hiil was obscured to make way for a genealogy tracing to the more prestigious Aqeel ibn Imran Abu Talib.
Many great Berber dynasties of the Maghreb did the same thing, but at least with them documented copies of their original genealogy remained so we know their true ancestry.

I'm hoping that the Galla Graves hold the answer, as there is writing on them, perhaps documenting ancestry. Once we figure out the alphabet they used we can figure out the true ancestry of the African Somali bloodlines.

which galla graves?

im assuming that the script is either greek or a south arabian form
if found in somalia.. and both scripts are known and understood only the language needs to be worked out.

gurey25 wrote:and you shouldnt mix looks and appearance with ancestry.

you have no problem with a blonde blue eyed syrian being an arab een though those features are uncharecteristic, but you have a problem with a sudanese black man bieng an arab.
isnt this just prejudice?

sudanese are are mixutre of different groups, arab tribes, and non arab muslim tribes like the zhagawa in darfur. the majority of sudananse northerners are arabized cushites who are not geneologically arab.
the same with egypt.. egyptians are not arab only a small minority come from arab tribes..

a zanzibari bantu looking fellow can also be an arab becuase he traces his decent from an arab patriach as well....

tahts what i am talking about Ninka suudaniga eeh madow eef africana daggan eeh carabka aah Is the same As Qawmamga geeska africa daggaan the somali ports where always bussy since the bigining of times
Seylac berbera Djibouto marka we know what happend during the hidrja IN axum, We know what happend when there arabic missonarys where Comming to the horn ,dadka somalidu waxay isku mushuqliyaan aragga qofku siidu uu eegyahay but thats not case here, carabnimadu maha filistiine assalyian palestin ka yimi ama gaall la muslimye uu labnaani sheegta.
ama masrii Qawmkii fircoon ka soo hadhay.

I think it's actually a variety of Libyco-Berber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh

Berbers were writing in Libyco-Berber by at least 300 B.C., and probably earlier. Proto-Somalis around 300 B.C. were still part of the greater Upper Nile Berbero-Cushitic cultural group.

The Galla graves near Ceerigaabo.

Anab wrote:

Voltage wrote: It does not matter who you intermarried with on the mom side as long as you are not illegitimate.[/b]

quote]

'as long as u r not illegitimate'?? Voltage did u have to include that?? Speaking of illegitimacy--i think the theory of somali mytheology should be examined! One theory in particular is the tale of an ogaden pregnant woman with a white sac--who later had sacaad the modern habar gidir sacaad. We should examine for real if Ceyr and Sacaad are really bilogically brothers. Aint that a thought Voltage?

Dhoociil she was not ogaden.

People i am arab my fathers father all the way to my 25th great grandfather (Both Dir and hawiye claim that darood was foriegn when they saw him on top of the tree) told us that we came from arabia and by looks i nor my family looks anything african i am a proud somali of arab ancestery and i have no love for arabs except that we share islam.

Voltage wrote:

dawwa9 wrote:I know that Ethiopians are more flexible with adding people to their ethnic groups by just speaking the language or even by maternal-links.

But still tests have shown they're up to 40-50% non-African.

Ethiopians are also much lighter than Somalis:

Hope you do know Haile Salassie is Oromo.

Most Somalis are cafe au laute, we all know the people called "futa madoobe". Still, skin color is just a product of melanin...the lightest people in Ethiopia are the Wallega Oromo and the darkest Ethiopians are the Arssi Oromo. The Wallega live in the highest mounts and the Arssi living in lands more flat and dry than Hawiye. Get educated.

he was not oromo he was habarawal

He lived among the gurage in the harrar distict he was born there
he never lived near amhaara

James Dahl wrote:I think it's actually a variety of Libyco-Berber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh

Berbers were writing in Libyco-Berber by at least 300 B.C., and probably earlier. Proto-Somalis around 300 B.C. were still part of the greater Upper Nile Berbero-Cushitic cultural group.

The Galla graves near Ceerigaabo.

thats a wild hypothesis..
we need to first carbon date the organic substances e.g the paint or dye mixture that was used to write on the graves...

but the libyo-berber hypothesis is very unusual, it would be a major breakthrough and
twist the general thinking of the anthropological community in another direction.

the libyo-berber script is derived from phoenician, the south arabian ones are also derived from phoenician, it it more likley to be south arabian, or who knows maybe an indian script..

Enlightened~Sista wrote:I thought Oromos were dark people? some even say darker than Somalis?

let me tell your something oromu gurage amhaara tigray exlculding the gambeele all these ethnic groups are all the same look alike all dhako laxoox , yet 2000 years ago something intresting happend the northeren chiefs adopted geez script of the language . and the invaded yemen also , But ethniclay oromu uraage amhaara tigray are all the same dhallasho ahaan

gurey25 wrote:

James Dahl wrote:I think it's actually a variety of Libyco-Berber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh

Berbers were writing in Libyco-Berber by at least 300 B.C., and probably earlier. Proto-Somalis around 300 B.C. were still part of the greater Upper Nile Berbero-Cushitic cultural group.

The Galla graves near Ceerigaabo.

thats a wild hypothesis..
we need to first carbon date the organic substances e.g the paint or dye mixture that was used to write on the graves...

but the libyo-berber hypothesis is very unusual, it would be a major breakthrough and
twist the general thinking of the anthropological community in another direction.

the libyo-berber script is derived from phoenician, the south arabian ones are also derived from phoenician, it it more likley to be south arabian, or who knows maybe an indian script..

Libyo-Berber actually derived from Proto-Canaanite, the ancestor of Phonecian and Libyo-Berber, which was used between 1400 B.C. and 1050 B.C., which was based on ancient Egyptian heiroglyphs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Canaanite_alphabet

Between 1050 B.C. and 300 B.C. the Berber peoples alphabet diverged into Libyo-Berber, which remained in use until 300 C.E. after which time it evolved into the modern Berber alphabet, the Tifinagh.

The Ancient Somali alphabet likely diverged as well from Libyo-Berber, but I would bet on it being the closest to a match.

Enlightened~Sista wrote:Im sorry..but why should hashmeite lineage mean anything...seriously Somalis..you are african..stop trying to identity yourself with the arabs.

i am not an african but a somali. and my ancestor was an arab called sheihk isaaq from iraq baghdad 8)

James, I thought that the "Berbers" were libyans and lived in North-west africa. Thats a long way from somalia, also I thought that the somalis didnt have an alphabet until the 1900's?
The berbers are related to ancient egyptians right?

abdi.ismail wrote:James, I thought that the "Berbers" were libyans and lived in North-west africa. Thats a long way from somalia, also I thought that the somalis didnt have an alphabet until the 1900's?
The berbers are related to ancient egyptians right?

So are Somalis.
The first recorded Somali alphabet that we know of was invented by Yuusuf al-Kawnayn in the 11th century and was based on Arabic. There is much evidence of earlier alphabets in use however.
Berbers and Cushites have a common ancestor who lived in south Egypt.

James Dahl wrote:

Enlightened~Sista wrote:arent Warsengeli darood? when did they become abgaal

Warsangeli are Darood, the Warsangeli Abgaal is a subclan of Warsangeli that became part of Abgaal

Salam

Are you even Somali?

Could you please tell me how the Warsengeli Abgaal are Darood? Having the same name does not entitle one coming from the other.

I heard this myth going about recently (usually means the elders were talking amongst themselves), people spreading that the Warsengeli Abgaal aren't really Abgaal. Methinks they're trying to stir up trouble.

In any case were all Somali


Peace

I've decided that I am not related to lamagoodle's anymore

Warsan_Star_Muslimah wrote:

James Dahl wrote:

Enlightened~Sista wrote:arent Warsengeli darood? when did they become abgaal

Warsangeli are Darood, the Warsangeli Abgaal is a subclan of Warsangeli that became part of Abgaal

Salam

Are you even Somali?

Could you please tell me how the Warsengeli Abgaal are Darood? Having the same name does not entitle one coming from the other.

I heard this myth going about recently (usually means the elders were talking amongst themselves), people spreading that the Warsengeli Abgaal aren't really Abgaal. Methinks they're trying to stir up trouble.

In any case were all Somali


Peace

Warsangeli Abgaal are both Warsangeli Darood and Abgaal Hawiye, the same way Isaaq are both Banu Hashim and Mahe Dir. A man has two parents. The two Warsangeli Abgaal clans are the sons of the first Garaad by his Abgaal wife.