BV Come in.. poll is homosexuality

[Navy9]

^LOL, topics like this always end up about the religion. Who was ibn Tufayl? Was he an Ashcari?

Well he wrote his famous story to inform al Ghazali about a thing or two, i hope to see them in the hereafter arguing

[SultanOrder]

If I had the energy I would read all seven pages of this thread, just so I can find out how from a starting point of homosexuality being a state of mind, you guys ended up talking about Schools of Islamic Theology!

And why is BV linked to the whole thing? Does she sing for the deep voiced section of the choir?

she do got a deep voice tho

Navy your og

Yeah, I get what your saying, but to me there are certain things that are correct in belief and others that are incorrect, and we cannot deny this, I'm not saying I go to muslims and say hey what is it you believe in this matter and that matter and then see if I consider them muslim or not. Also, I think we already believe in the same things and most people don't ever need to go past the 5 pillars of Imaan but it is also good to know a more concise creed when there is so much confusion in the air, within Islam and without. It's not like I've said or brought anything new but I was just pointing out to abdalla what the majorities of muslims have believed and have taken for granted. It really is that simple for me.

[SultanOrder]

PO, Lakiin you still didn't answer by question about the repentance of Imam Abu Ashcari.

Imam Abu Hassan Ashari use to be a Mutazillah and was trained and was their most promising student, but he started to have difficulties in their aqida and a lot of things didn't make sense to him. Eventually, he renounced his beliefs in the Mutazilah sect and joined the Ahlul Sunnah whereupon his intimate understanding of their doctrines was the lead in refuting their beliefs.

He use to be Mutazillah but when his teacher couldn't answer his questions, he renounced the Mutazila doctrines and repented from their beliefs and joined ahlul sunnah where he spent the later of his life refuting the Mutazilla and Jahm sects.

[ToughGong]

PO, Lakiin you still didn't answer by question about the repentance of Imam Abu Ashcari.

Imam Abu Hassan Ashari use to be a Mutazillah and was trained and was their most promising student, but he started to have difficulties in their aqida and a lot of things didn't make sense to him. Eventually, he renounced his beliefs in the Mutazilah sect and joined the Ahlul Sunnah whereupon his intimate understanding of their doctrines was the lead in refuting their beliefs.

He use to be Mutazillah but when his teacher couldn't answer his questions, he renounced the Mutazila doctrines and repented from their beliefs and joined ahlul sunnah where he spent the later of his life refuting the Mutazilla and Jahm sects.

I heard he had a dream the Prophet Mohamed (SAW) pointed him to the error in following the Mutazillah doctorine .And becuase of this he had a complete change of heart litteraly, over night

[SultanOrder]

Abdalla/Navy9 this is a very good read

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/kalam.htm


Seemeyer yeah I read that too.

[ToughGong]

Abdalla/Navy9 this is a very good read

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/kalam.htm


Seemeyer yeah I read that too.

I listened to a audio tape by Hamza Yusuf. interviewing Nuh Ha Mim Keller on interpretin hadith without the relevent background Knowledge.It was mind blowing how easy it is to go astray

[SultanOrder]

Yeah, I agree 100% send me a link.

I'm not even knowledgeable to engage in this subject like I have been, it was just my ego pushing to prove something.

As I was just reading the article reminded me of what Navy said.

1. Things that one should believe to be a muslim.
2. Things that one should believe but if not doesn't make kufr.
3. Things one shouldn't believe but if you do doesn't make kufr.
4. Things that if one beliefs then it is kufr.

And one 1,4, are easy to know 2,3, are in the grey area.

[ToughGong]

Yeah, I agree 100% send me a link.

No can do PO, it was off line in my car about 6 years ago
I wonder if it has been uploaded though,amma search for it

[abdalla11]

PO, Lakiin you still didn't answer by question about the repentance of Imam Abu Ashcari.

Imam Abu Hassan Ashari use to be a Mutazillah and was trained and was their most promising student, but he started to have difficulties in their aqida and a lot of things didn't make sense to him. Eventually, he renounced his beliefs in the Mutazilah sect and joined the Ahlul Sunnah whereupon his intimate understanding of their doctrines was the lead in refuting their beliefs.

He use to be Mutazillah but when his teacher couldn't answer his questions, he renounced the Mutazila doctrines and repented from their beliefs and joined ahlul sunnah where he spent the later of his life refuting the Mutazilla and Jahm sects.

The guy was a muctazillah, then left them after he left them he spent a whole couple of months alone and introduced his own creed but hhe repented from that too and said i am on the aqeedah of Imam Ahmed.

The main difference between Ashcari and the muctazillah is that the latter one denies all the Attributes of Allah except for seven while the Ashcari confirm it by they give it other meaning (ta'wil). For example when Allah said that He created Adam with his Hands ( surah 38 verse 75) they say it doesn't mean his Hands but his Power, so they change the meaning without having evidence from the Sunnah. Their basic point of origin is their brain/logic.

The true followers of the sunnah confirm and believe in what Allah says without ta’teel (denial), tashbeeh (resemblance) and tamtheel (likening). Their basic point of origin is the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

LOL@ Hamza Yusuf i don't go near that guy, read this http://abdurrahman.org/tawheed/sifat.pdf

[SultanOrder]

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ashari.htm

This is an article by the late Shaikh Sayyid Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki al-Makki.The following is a defence of the Ash'ari school by one of the foremost scholars of Hadith and Fiqh in Makkah until his death.

[Navy9]

Thanks Perfect, I have read that be4.



Abdalla,

If you read Hayy ibn Yaqzan of ibn Tufayl (bwt he was a doctor, philosopher and lived in Andalus) you will see that Hayy through his reasoning he will find the Ultimate truth that Allah exists which was a stand that Muatazilah took but is he a muatazilah or ashari or followed any other school of Islamic theology, I do not know.

[abdalla11]

Abdalla,

If you read Hayy ibn Yaqzan of ibn Tufayl (bwt he was a doctor, philosopher and lived in Andalus) you will see that Hayy through his reasoning he will find the Ultimate truth that Allah exists which was a stand that Muatazilah took but is he a muatazilah or ashari or followed any other school of Islamic theology, I do not know.

The mutazillah say 'Allah mawjood bi duni Makaan' Allah exists without a place, does he say the same?

[Navy9]

Read the whole school, understand what was its first tenents, what it later became when it was used as a political party and be the judge.