Somali Historians come in including you James Dahl

[BlackVelvet]

I can't speak about the others so I can only discuss what I understand (marginally)

Ximaan the point is - are the Somalis of today possibly a mixture of Samaales of the old day and Oromo/other tribes? If you compare just somali DNA to one another how many different groups would you find even within the same qabiil?

Well first we found out the difference between Oromos and Somalis genetics by using very large samples so we can get as accurate as we can. once we found out, we can see which of the Somalis are Samaales or Orma as James mentioned. Then we can do different test within the Somali people and test like a thousand people of different sub-clan and found out the average results and see if there are differences between the clans and which clans are more closer to each other, and those people that dont have the same average genetics as their clan then those have clearly assimilated and we can possibily found out their real clan by comparing its results with other clans and whichever clan they closely match with is their real clan.

That could work

do you think it is a coincidence

no bitch!

Either say "Yes bitch!" - i.e. it's a coincidence so how dare you

or say

"No mam" - i.e. it's not a coincidence and how smart of you to have pointed it out


Since I asked a direct question your "No" confuses your insult. Could have even said eff off bitch. Seriously so many different more coherent ways you could have disagreed/insulted me.

[BlackVelvet]

James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

People will just get upset, suffice it to say there are conflicting traditions and let's leave it at that.

How about giving all conflicting traditions and then we go from there? Is it possible to gain credible objective understanding of Somali genealogy if you have to tailor the findings to the audience?

[Bilis]

Grant used to claim the opposite so it doesn't matter what he's posting now. He used to argue that Somalis originally came from North Africa while using the haplogroup as "proof".

I was just pointing that out.

Many Somalis belong to the V32 sub-clade of E1b1b, which is believed to have originated in the vicinity of Egypt. So he's actually not mistaken there.

[XimanJaale]

Bilis,

Bring source for your statement.

[James Dahl]

Well not related to the current discussion but here is an interesting bit of history, there is a Waaqafeena calendar still used by the Borana today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borana_calendar

One element that has been recently discovered by a man named Laurance R. Doyle is that the standing stone circles in Northeastern Kenya at a place called called Namoratunga, correspond almost precisely with the Waaqafeena Calendar of the Borana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namoratunga
http://web.archive.org/web/200810290732 ... 0Text%20T1

This is especially interesting because today the area is inhabited by Luo people, the Turkana, but in ancient times this area was inhabited by what linguists refer to as "Cushitic" people, the distant ancestors of Orma, Samaale or Iraqw perhaps. There was extensive archaeological work done there.

http://in-africa.org/wp-content/uploads ... atunga.pdf

What he is probably not aware of is that there are standing stone circles all throughout Somalia as well, and especially in the north that look just like that. Here are photos of the Namoratunga 'calendar'



Now that looks rather familiar doesn't it, there are hundreds of these in Somalia.

Here is a youtube video about this topic:



Since our star is drifting through the universe in orbit around our galaxy and influenced by the gravity of other stars, stars move in the night sky over the centuries, and one of the months no longer exactly lines up with the Namoratunga 'calendar', which led Laurance R. Doyle to conclude the Namoratunga 'calendar' must have been built around 300 BC, when all the stars WOULD have lined up with the stones.

[XimanJaale]

woow interesting, thanks for sharing and please do share any other interesting things you find.

[James Dahl]

James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

People will just get upset, suffice it to say there are conflicting traditions and let's leave it at that.

How about giving all conflicting traditions and then we go from there? Is it possible to gain credible objective understanding of Somali genealogy if you have to tailor the findings to the audience?

Well, Warsangeli tradition states that the first Garaad, Garad Dhidiin and his successor Garaad Xasan both spent much of their lives in Muqdisho, in fact Garaad Xasan is better known as Xamargale. According to this legend, two of Garaad Dhidiin's sons by his Abgaal wife chose to stay behind, and became the Warsangeli Abgaal.

The Abgaal tradition however states that Warsangeli Abgaal are sons of Warsangeli, a son of Harti, son of Abgaal.

[Bilis]

Bilis,

Bring source for your statement.

V32 is a sub-clade of M78, an E1b1b sub-haplogroup. Cruciani et al. (2007) indicate that M78 in turn likely originated in Northeastern Africa, around Egypt and Libya, and that its sub-clades later spread from there.

[Bilis]

By the way, great thread and info guys. That's the spirit!

[Meyle]

Isxaq ibn mohamed ibn Ali ibn Abi talib ibn abdul mutalib? Is this what meyle meant?

?

[Substance]

He is asking if you claim to be banu hashim.

[hydrogen]

People will just get upset, suffice it to say there are conflicting traditions and let's leave it at that.

How about giving all conflicting traditions and then we go from there? Is it possible to gain credible objective understanding of Somali genealogy if you have to tailor the findings to the audience?

Well, Warsangeli tradition states that the first Garaad, Garad Dhidiin and his successor Garaad Xasan both spent much of their lives in Muqdisho, in fact Garaad Xasan is better known as Xamargale. According to this legend, two of Garaad Dhidiin's sons by his Abgaal wife chose to stay behind, and became the Warsangeli Abgaal.

The Abgaal tradition however states that Warsangeli Abgaal are sons of Warsangeli, a son of Harti, son of Abgaal.

It's more likely the Warsengali Darood are a subclan of Harti Abgaal just judging by their population.

[BlackVelvet]

James so regarding Warsengeli it's not a coincidence, they are related it's just a matter of which way round.

Thanks for the other info, didn't know such a thing existed. Who were Cushites in 300 BC

[Meyle]

Grant used to claim the opposite so it doesn't matter what he's posting now. He used to argue that Somalis originally came from North Africa while using the haplogroup as "proof".

I was just pointing that out.

Many Somalis belong to the V32 sub-clade of E1b1b, which is believed to have originated in the vicinity of Egypt. So he's actually not mistaken there.

No one is talking about the different mutations within that haplogroup, we're discussing the haplogroup itself and no most Somalis carry the E-M35 followed by E-M78 (V32)

[Meyle]

He is asking if you claim to be banu hashim.

It seems like he asked something else.


Wether I claim to be Banu Hashim or not is irrelevant.