Saving Somalia; a tentative manifesto

[HannibalBarrcas]

Rwanda just 19 years after a million person genocide is now one of the fastest developing and least corrupt African nations. Cultural change can happen quite quickly, and Somalia is bound to eventually normalize.

Sure, cultural change can and may happen, but let's not minimize the impacts a strong leader can have on guiding, directing, and Impelling these cultural reforms. Paul Kagame, for the most part, is a selfless & intelligent leader. Without a leader like Kagame, Rwanda would most likely still be in turmoil. Somalia won't go anywhere without a strong leader.

[gurey25]

Rwanda just 19 years after a million person genocide is now one of the fastest developing and least corrupt African nations. Cultural change can happen quite quickly, and Somalia is bound to eventually normalize.

Sure, cultural change can and may happen, but let's not minimize the impacts a strong leader can have on guiding, directing, and Impelling these cultural reforms. Paul Kagame, for the most part, is a selfless & intelligent leader. Without a leader like Kagame, Rwanda would most likely still be in turmoil. Somalia won't go anywhere without a strong leader.

Culture can change..
In the 1860's Germans were known throughout europe as lazy, clanish and dirty/disorganized.
Japanese of the early 1900's were the same.
There are records of visitors and their descriptions.

There is an even drastic change in South korea.

Due to the upcoming seoul olympics, the government had a educational program to train people not to spit in the street,
to deodorize themselves so that they dont stink, and recommended the use of toothpaste and mouthwash which were not popular.
The government also trained people to stand in line and introduced the concept of a queue,
before that Koreans were like arabs , africans and indians totally ignorant about the function of a queue,
standing in linefor something was truely alien.

that was over 30 years ago,
today South koreans are health conscious, obcessed with cleanliness , and are well ordered and organized.


change can happen and it can be fast.

[PrinceDaadi]

How are you doing folks?


1.The notion of federalism as it is today is a farce. A poor nation that is sparsely populated and with a population that has been traumatised by decades of war and fed institutional tribalism cannot have federal states. Granted the creations of the so called federal states is a precursor to civil wars that would dwarf previous wars. The creation of Bangladeshi/ Pakistan/Indian and the subsequent deaths of millions may serve as an example. I propose the formation of two federal states ; Somaliland and Somali.

An: I think federalism will not work in Somalia because Somalis have missunderstood the whole thing, I think devolved system of governance will work where regions/counties will receive portion of National budget and they run their affairs paying their civil servants and running local development so no body blames the central government but as LQ said we need strong central government that can direct the country.

The notion that SL and South Somalia can form two region state will be difficult, SL is already facing challenges convincing everyone to accept SL project so if the regions which currently r refusing SL project refuse to be part of that SL federal state what do u do? The South is even in poor shape and will not agree on anything

2.The presidency will rotate every two years between Somaliland and Somalia. The president will be elected by 83 mayors elected from the 84 districts( municipalities) that existed prior to the disintegration of Somalia. They will vote for one president from the federal republic of Somaliland for year I and Somalia for year two.

Two yrs is very short, you can't implement what vision you have.
Besides many of these districts which the regime made on its final days r farce, I think we should either use 1960 ones or we would have census and where ever 50,000 people live will be a district and will send one representitive to House of Representatives.
Nevertheless I agree we should not have a large parliament.

3.The districts will be allowed to have their own tax regime to cover healthcare and education costs. They decide the tax rate and will be allowed to tax property, take income tax and local levies.

In my case the Counties will raise some income from their counties but will receive a budget from central government.

4.The Federal government will be led by a PM whose cabinet will consist of less than five ministers; Finance, Justice, District/regional, Defence and Foreign affairs. The post of Information minister will be banned in the new constitution. It is dictatorships, absolute monarchies and un democratic countries that have a propaganda minister.

More or less agreed though most likely we will need 10 to 12 line ministers, the rest can be directorates.

5.An international tribune to try human rights abuses will be established in the Hague. Any Somali, who is suspected of committing genocide, murder, graft and other crimes will be arraigned, tried and face the wheels of justice. Death penalties will be the norm the first few years.. this will subsequently be turned into jail term

I don't trust Hague and Europeans, we should rather have a truth and justic commission

6.Local courts at the district levels will be established to ensure that justice is executed. Humiliation will be the desired form of punishment for the guilty.

Agreed

7.The Federal government’s budget will come from Value added taxes, customs and exercises and capital tax.

Agreed

8.Agriculture and animal husbandry will be promoted and subsidized. Imports of food will be taxed.

Agreed

9.Truth and reconciliation councils will be established at the district level where every citizen can ask for a sitting to consider grifience.

agreed

10. Public officials will be paid generous salaries to equipoise what they will get in bribes and kick-backs.

Agreed

What do you say?

[PrinceDaadi]

Daadi's take on Somali mess! I visit Somalia several times in the last few yrs I have been to Mogadishu and Hargeisa and frankly speaking people on the ground are tired they don't care this whole thing we r discussing, they just want someone to pull them out of this mess.

This qabyaalad you r seeing is mainly propagated by Dayuusbaro and leaders.

What Somalia lacks is a genuine leaders, this qabyaalad and mistrust r not strong sentiment on the ground.

The reason I asked you earlier is this quick fix or longtime solution is because we thought 1st we need to pull our self out of this mess then we discuss the longtime solution.

[nord]

Good luck saving Somalia when majority of the Somalis who have been brought up in the West are useless.

[SimplySerene]

Tol beelay!

Where is my beesha? I need to be nummero uno Even to SimplySerene, I am no. 3 , well she pushed me to number four when she suddenly discovered that Thuga was better than me

Can someone sing Carees Ciise's "soo baxayaa" .... BTW, do you know where I can find that great song by Carees " soo baxayaa"?

Since you like to joke around . I upgraded you to number 2 on my list

I like this thread

[Lamagoodle]

Tol beelay!

Where is my beesha? I need to be nummero uno Even to SimplySerene, I am no. 3 , well she pushed me to number four when she suddenly discovered that Thuga was better than me

Can someone sing Carees Ciise's "soo baxayaa" .... BTW, do you know where I can find that great song by Carees " soo baxayaa"?

Since you like to joke around . I upgraded you to number 2 on my list

I like this thread

Where did you dig this thread from? and that quote too?

Anyway,

[SimplySerene]

I like rereading my old posts. I reread a thread where members were discussing who were their favorite moderators.

I made list of my favorite mod. Man I use to make lots of lists. You were number 3 and then I bumped you down you to 4. The quote was your reaction . I thought it would funny if I quoted that moment and brought here. I really like this thread. I saw it a while back so i wanted to bump it.

Thanks for the welcome. I my Somali forum peeps.



Laterz . See you around the forum corners

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Lamagoodle, dude give up. There is no such thing as Somalinimo. Southerners are a group of people willingly accepting foreign troops into their country, sabotaging any attempt by Somaliland to establish itself economically and politically, selling off their own land and sea like it's a garage-sale, killing each-other over a shared city etc. then having the gall to call Isaaq Somalidiid. In every single region from Majerteenia to Ras kamboni there is a clan war going on. No Isaaq would ever allow Ethiopian soldiers into Hargeisa. No Isaaq would ever allow the humiliation of having African union troops stationed in their homeland and would rather compromise and deal with the devil than let such a shameful thing happen. The only Somalidiids are those who are a UN colony in 2015.

Your fake government also recently appointed the Hell's Angels reject Moogan as military advisor. That killed any sentiment I had for any of you and I'm sure most SLanders will feel the same way. There was also a thread in the political section showing the division of parliamentary seats. Despite being nowhere near the biggest clan, I think you can guess which clan had the lion's share of respresentation and who was sidelined. It shows you have learnt nothing in almost 3 decades of war, poverty and humiliation. Stop with the fake crocodile tears about Saving Somalia and Unity and please just leave the rest of us alone.

[JSL3000]

Lamagoodle, dude give up. There is no such thing as Somalinimo. Southerners are a group of people willingly accepting foreign troops into their country, sabotaging any attempt by Somaliland to establish itself economically and politically, selling off their own land and sea like it's a garage-sale, killing each-other over a shared city etc. then having the gall to call Isaaq Somalidiid. In every single region from Majerteenia to Ras kamboni there is a clan war going on. No Isaaq would ever allow Ethiopian soldiers into Hargeisa. No Isaaq would ever allow the humiliation of having African union troops stationed in their homeland and would rather compromise and deal with the devil than let such a shameful thing happen. The only Somalidiids are those who are a UN colony in 2015.

Your fake government also recently appointed the Hell's Angels reject Moogan as military advisor. That killed any sentiment I had for any of you and I'm sure most SLanders will feel the same way. There was also a thread in the political section showing the division of parliamentary seats. Despite being nowhere near the biggest clan, I think you can guess which clan had the lion's share of respresentation and who was sidelined. It shows you have learnt nothing in almost 3 decades of war, poverty and humiliation. Stop with the fake crocodile tears about Saving Somalia and Unity and please just leave the rest of us alone.

Exactly

[Lamagoodle]

Lamagoodle, dude give up. There is no such thing as Somalinimo. Southerners are a group of people willingly accepting foreign troops into their country, sabotaging any attempt by Somaliland to establish itself economically and politically, selling off their own land and sea like it's a garage-sale, killing each-other over a shared city etc. then having the gall to call Isaaq Somalidiid. In every single region from Majerteenia to Ras kamboni there is a clan war going on. No Isaaq would ever allow Ethiopian soldiers into Hargeisa. No Isaaq would ever allow the humiliation of having African union troops stationed in their homeland and would rather compromise and deal with the devil than let such a shameful thing happen. The only Somalidiids are those who are a UN colony in 2015.

Your fake government also recently appointed the Hell's Angels reject Moogan as military advisor. That killed any sentiment I had for any of you and I'm sure most SLanders will feel the same way. There was also a thread in the political section showing the division of parliamentary seats. Despite being nowhere near the biggest clan, I think you can guess which clan had the lion's share of respresentation and who was sidelined. It shows you have learnt nothing in almost 3 decades of war, poverty and humiliation. Stop with the fake crocodile tears about Saving Somalia and Unity and please just leave the rest of us alone.

LOL. You make a lot of wrong assumptions; seef la bood kind of Somalis.

1. It is not my government. I live in the west under an elected government
2. I was not born/do not live in the south. But, unlike you and others, I view southern Somalis and somalis from everywhere as being my people. I am a somali first and foremost.
3. Somaliland will not allow foreigners? where did you get that from? do not smoke the cool aid; Somalis everywhere are facing challenges. We have the same problems. I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING; Political leaders in Africa and Somalia are prostitutes, they will pimp their mothers if that serves their purpose.
4. I am against the whole foundation of the Somali parliament; 4,5, lalalands etc
5. I am more of a "somalilander" (if that word exists) than many of you who claim to hail from there and who constantly created and diffuse hatred.

I find your last comment very offensive!!!!! Discussing what is good for my people, your people and our people is not FAKE crocodile tears. I do not fake it. I speak my mind.

Saving Somalia is in the interest of every Somali. I thought you were????? I wonder what the somali mother in Somalia has done to you?

This piece is my opinion.

[QaxootiWaaxid]

Lamagoodle, dude give up. There is no such thing as Somalinimo. Southerners are a group of people willingly accepting foreign troops into their country, sabotaging any attempt by Somaliland to establish itself economically and politically, selling off their own land and sea like it's a garage-sale, killing each-other over a shared city etc. then having the gall to call Isaaq Somalidiid. In every single region from Majerteenia to Ras kamboni there is a clan war going on. No Isaaq would ever allow Ethiopian soldiers into Hargeisa. No Isaaq would ever allow the humiliation of having African union troops stationed in their homeland and would rather compromise and deal with the devil than let such a shameful thing happen. The only Somalidiids are those who are a UN colony in 2015.

Your fake government also recently appointed the Hell's Angels reject Moogan as military advisor. That killed any sentiment I had for any of you and I'm sure most SLanders will feel the same way. There was also a thread in the political section showing the division of parliamentary seats. Despite being nowhere near the biggest clan, I think you can guess which clan had the lion's share of respresentation and who was sidelined. It shows you have learnt nothing in almost 3 decades of war, poverty and humiliation. Stop with the fake crocodile tears about Saving Somalia and Unity and please just leave the rest of us alone.

Thank you for taking the time to say what needed to be said. Alas, it's like talking to a brick wall.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

@Lamagoodle.

Why would it be in my interest to "save Somalia", a nation that has nothing but enmity and jealousy for me and my people? There has been no indication, ever, on your side that a stable Somalia would be good for us. You try to sabotage and derail any development whether it is airspace, AID or lifting of military embargo etc. at the first convenient opportunity.

We do not have "the same problems". Somaliland is a nation riddled with issues and obstacles, but we are not in the same boat as Somalia - we are not even in the same river. Our problems are very different to yours and inshallah Somaliland will overcome them. I don't agree with them but I can see why forumers like Emperior and Hawdian are a lot more favourable towards Ethiopia, (a nation that actually contributes to Somalilands development) than Somalia, one that only antagonises us. Let me put it this way, I was a staunch unionist up until recently. And your country has managed to turn even me into pro-Somaliland independence.

[Lamagoodle]

@Lamagoodle.

Why would it be in my interest to "save Somalia", a nation that has nothing but enmity and jealousy for me and my people? There has been no indication, ever, on your side that a stable Somalia would be good for us. You try to sabotage and derail any development whether it is airspace, AID or lifting of military embargo etc. at the first convenient opportunity.

We do not have "the same problems". Somaliland is a nation riddled with issues and obstacles, but we are not in the same boat as Somalia - we are not even in the same river. Our problems are very different to yours and inshallah Somaliland will overcome them. I don't agree with them but I can see why forumers like Emperior and Hawdian are a lot more favourable towards Ethiopia, (a nation that actually contributes to Somalilands development) than Somalia, one that only antagonises us.

Liquid, I thought you were better than the HIGH school dropouts on this joint. It is in your interest to save your people (Somalis everywhere are your people, my people and our people). I hope you are not seduced by the tribal nonsense spewed daily online and elsewhere.

You are generalising too much; somalis do not hate/ or are jealous of other somalis. You cannot judge millions of Somalis based on political discourse of a few calooshood u shaqeeystayaal.

I don't understand when you use "YOU" what you mean by that. You are using the language of the intellectually deprived, high school drop outs. See the discussions earlier and witness how I am accused of being on one side or the other.

You are engaged in a discussion in which you hardly can differentiate between and politics; you blame the somali mother in the NFD, SOmali Galbeed and Djibouti for the actions of lackeys.

I am talking about the good of a people united by culture language and much more; you speak about a political entity. That is our difference.

And am I surprised because the above is usually what drop outs do.

Magaceenu dhulka ayuu yaalaa. There are some levels, but Somalis back home are in Dantes inferno.

See you around.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Lamagoodle, you have noble sentiments but those sentiments don't reflect reality. Somalinimo is fake and artificial. In Somalia, every clan sees itself as a nation. You cannot build a nation from such a people. You cannot forge national identity and unity from a group of individuals who cannot see past tomorrow. May I direct you towards the work of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. Somalians are simply too stupid to survive. I predicted that in 30-40 years Somalia will be integrated fully into Ethiopia and Kenya.