If you say your qabil is laandheer ...

[zumaale]

LiquidHydrogen, Based

Let us be objective and stop peddling ideas that have no academic foundation that we descend from a group of people that migrated together to the Horn. I am not saying it might not be the case but until further testing all bets are off. All the theories you have put forward about haplogroup T and E-V32 migrating into the Horn together are nothing but conjecture.

I am not arguing that the T haplogroup found among Somalis is a variant of the type found in Southern Arabia. All I am stating is that we do not know, and there is also no evidence that haplogroup T is present wherever E-V32 is found as illustrated by its absence among Northern Cushites and the Nilo Saharan E-V32 carrying Fur and Masalit.

If the Lemba that reside in distant South Africa acquired Jewish Cohanim J haplogroup markers and rare T1b markers that are present among some Turkish and Jewish samples, anything is possible. Let us keep an open mind and not go for a biased theory that supports a common point of origin for Somali speaking people without hard evidence.

GS

LOOOL

The Levant has already been established as the haplogroup T point of origin and is a Eurasian marker. E-V32 is strictly a Horn of African/Sudanese E1b1b haplotype that is not closely related to the E1b1b haplotypes found in the Med and Middle East. You have more chance of being a descendant of Abrahas E-V32 carrying troops that remained in Yemen than being a descendant of an Aqeeli that is buried in Southern Yemen.

[Itrah]

All of this stuff is massive conjuncture without a decent sub-clade analysis of the T1a in Somalis (especially the Dir).

In my opinion, the T1a in Somalis is probably from the same population that gave N1a maternally to Somalis. But since there is no matriarchal culture in Somalis, the N1a did not get restricted to a handful of clans (every clan has mtDNA N1a) like y-DNA T1a did. That is the easiest explanation for why there is T1a present in the region. Not some highly improbable scenario of a small tribe of T1a people coming in later than everyone else.

[zumaale]

BTW, none of this disproves the Darood tradition of descent from an Arab sheikh.

@Zumaale. The T haplogroup is commonly found along the Red Sea coast especially in Egypt and the Levant. There's no way the Horn T marker came from the Arabian peninsula. It has a higher occurrence in North Africa and Shaam.

T is also found as far south as Tanzania. The South African Lembas are probably an anomaly.

T is not found on the Red Sea Coast of Sudan and Eritrea. It is found in Upper Egypt and to a lesser extent Lower Egypt too. There is no T genetic continuum between Upper Egypt and the Horn.

I do not disagree that scientists have hypothesised it has a point of origin in the Levant nor I have I argued that our T variety is an Arabian one. My argument is simply that we do not know whom we are closely related to until further testing.

[zumaale]

All of this stuff is massive conjuncture without a decent sub-clade analysis of the T1a in Somalis (especially the Dir).

In my opinion, the T1a in Somalis is probably from the same population that gave N1a maternally to Somalis. But since there is no matriarchal culture in Somalis, the N1a did not get restricted to a handful of clans (every clan has mtDNA N1a) like y-DNA T1a did. That is the easiest explanation for why there is T1a present in the region. Not some highly improbable scenario of a small tribe of T1a people coming in later than everyone else.

Itrah I agree all we have is conjecture but some people push their ideas like it is the Gospel Truth and noobs reading will swallow it.

You are entitled to your theories but it is just an individual theory. A decent sub-clade and a better TMCRA would settle most arguments. If it is found again that the TMCRA of the different Dir subclans is within the two millennium period then the sole migrant theory seems more probable. One man could not have brought hundreds of N1a Mtdna carrying Xalimos with him to the Horn lol.

[Ben Dover]

Zumaale

If a solomadaw or black adam person is T I believe at least all mohamed obokor have the same haplogroup . Get a biciide straight from garadag next time lool.

Bro, HJ shaki kama qabi iney T noqonayan badankoda laakin so as not to appear biased I gotta hold back .

HJ here and I am E1b1b1a1b, make of that what you will.

[zumaale]

Zumaale

If a solomadaw or black adam person is T I believe at least all mohamed obokor have the same haplogroup . Get a biciide straight from garadag next time lool.

Bro, HJ shaki kama qabi iney T noqonayan badankoda laakin so as not to appear biased I gotta hold back .

HJ here and I am E1b1b1a1b, make of that what you will.

Your contribution is most welcome, the more individuals that get tested, the clearer the picture.

What subclan are you bro?

[Ben Dover]

Agreed we need more people to do this to build a better picture. I am Cali Barre.

[Itrah]

One man could not have brought hundreds of N1a Mtdna carrying Xalimos with him to the Horn lol.

The original tribe could have. Initially the first batch of T1a carriers that entered Africa via the Sinai (my hypothesis) carried N1a, N1e, I, N1b, M1a, U3, R0a etc females with them. Despite the +85% T1a in the Dir, they are most likely not autosomally or racially representative of this tribe.

T1a is still there in upper Egypt at decent levels (10%), but got reduced in frequency in North Sudan. In Ethiopia and Eritrea it is around 5%.

[Rambie]

I am Cali Barre.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

All of this stuff is massive conjuncture without a decent sub-clade analysis of the T1a in Somalis (especially the Dir).

In my opinion, the T1a in Somalis is probably from the same population that gave N1a maternally to Somalis. But since there is no matriarchal culture in Somalis, the N1a did not get restricted to a handful of clans (every clan has mtDNA N1a) like y-DNA T1a did. That is the easiest explanation for why there is T1a present in the region. Not some highly improbable scenario of a small tribe of T1a people coming in later than everyone else.

Funny you should say that. My MtDNA haplogroup is N1a - although I think that's more to do with chance. Most Somali MtDNA haplos are L or M.

[zumaale]

Agreed we need more people to do this to build a better picture. I am Cali Barre.

Thanks a million bro. That comes under Muuse Abokoor if I am not mistaken. Do you know of any other HJ test results.

[Itrah]

Funny you should say that. My MtDNA haplogroup is N1a - although I think that's more to do with chance. Most Somali MtDNA haplos are L or M.

L3 and M1 are the most common, but N1 is still around 12.5% to 17% and found in every clan (not regionally restricted). It could be related to the prehistoric T1a tribe.

[zumaale]

One man could not have brought hundreds of N1a Mtdna carrying Xalimos with him to the Horn lol.

The original tribe could have. Initially the first batch of T1a carriers that entered Africa via the Sinai (my hypothesis) carried N1a, N1e, I, N1b, M1a, U3, R0a etc females with them. Despite the +85% T1a in the Dir, they are most likely not autosomally or racially representative of this tribe.

T1a is still there in upper Egypt at decent levels (10%), but got reduced in frequency in North Sudan. In Ethiopia and Eritrea it is around 5%.

Itrah

A fair hypothesis. It is possible that the T1a Dirs descend from an Egyptian population but why is there no genetic continuum? T1a is virtually non existent among the Afars, Saho, Beja and other Cushites that inhabit the North Eastern/Horn coast until you get to the Somalis of Djibouti and Somaliland. As the presence of T1a among the Dir points to a founder effect, did their MCRA ancestor trek along the Red Sea Coast or was he an overseas migrant???

All theories are plausible as there is nothing concrete to work on. I do not subscribe to any, I just seek answers and until a thorough study is done on T1a Somalis one should abstain from pushing one agenda.

[Itrah]

A fair hypothesis. It is possible that the T1a Dirs descend from an Egyptian population but why is there no genetic continuum? T1a is virtually non existent among the Afars, Saho, Beja and other Cushites that inhabit the North Eastern/Horn coast until you get to the Somalis of Djibouti and Somaliland. As the presence of T1a among the Dir points to a founder effect, did their MCRA ancestor trek along the Red Sea Coast or was he an overseas migrant???

All theories are plausible as there is nothing concrete to work on. I do not subscribe to any, I just seek answers and until a thorough study is done on T1a Somalis one should abstain from pushing one agenda.

y-lineages are prone to being either completely whiped out (warfare, killing off the males, patriarchal systems etc) in a region or pumped to very high levels to the point that it does not even represent the main ancestry of a certain group. That's why you also have to look at mtDNA to see whether there are possible links or population movements that might explain it.

[zumaale]

A fair hypothesis. It is possible that the T1a Dirs descend from an Egyptian population but why is there no genetic continuum? T1a is virtually non existent among the Afars, Saho, Beja and other Cushites that inhabit the North Eastern/Horn coast until you get to the Somalis of Djibouti and Somaliland. As the presence of T1a among the Dir points to a founder effect, did their MCRA ancestor trek along the Red Sea Coast or was he an overseas migrant???

All theories are plausible as there is nothing concrete to work on. I do not subscribe to any, I just seek answers and until a thorough study is done on T1a Somalis one should abstain from pushing one agenda.

y-lineages are prone to being either completely whiped out (warfare, killing off the males, patriarchal systems etc) in a region or pumped to very high levels to the point that it does not even represent the main ancestry of a certain group. That's why you also have to look at mtDNA to see whether there are possible links or population movements that might explain it.

mtDNA is irrelevant in this case because they are fairly distributed among Somalis due to intense mixing over a long period of time. N lineages cannot be also associated with African T1a that easily because of the fluid nature of population exchanges that have historically occurred in Northern Africa and the Middle East. It has not even been proved that N is unique to any T1a population because T1a is a minor lineage in terms of numbers and is swamped by other lineages wherever it is found. Their autosomnal DNA is not that distinct from neighbouring populations.