Gloriously Educated Somalia/Somaliland nationalists......

[Samatr]

My major is Biological Science and my minor is Anthroplogy.

[Galol]

Samatr

Great. Why not single Honours BTW? Do you guys know that most top employers prefer single honours?

But hey I like both of your areas of study. Fasscinating they are.

[X.Playa]

Al Gazali's philosophical rebattle and that of his western counterpart Immunal Kant are dismal failure , you can't and will not subjugate logic by a fanatic faith on divinity of a Cow or a Sky God or Jessim Chisim.

Al Gazali's credit is in huminizing Islam, his aesthetic life style and pioneering Sufism with much borrowing form Buddhism gave Islam a a mystical endurence. His 10 year seclusion added Sufism to Islam , from the Somali bush Dariiqa to the whirling Dervish in Turkey's is all due to Gazali's dissatisfaction with the Purist and hard line Unitarians, god is with in us and we can be one and reach Nirvana by discipline, he preached against the notion of God fearing , piety and fear don't go together, u can't just pray because u fear god u should pray because u LOVE god.

Gurey , have you read Xay Ibnu Yaqdaan? by Ibanu Dufayli? its been over 15 years since i have read any Arabic literature, but i still can remember reading , Taaha Xuseen's Fi Shicir Al Jaahili(In the Pre-Islamic Potery) when first the blind French educated Taaha Xuseen published his work old Islamist such as Jamaal Diinu Al Afghaani and Maxamed Cabdo called for his execution.

Its well known much of the Quran's translations are based on Pre-Islamic Arab poetry, Daaha Xuseen's argued much of the pre-Islamic Arab poetry was fabricated in order to legitimize the incoherent Quranic babble or Mohamed's diminutive verses. In studying the poetry of Imrul Qays , Daaha xuseen concluded its was a later invention, Imrual Qays was a supposedly a Qaxdaani from Bani Kunda(southern Arabisans) clan his Arabic or poetry was in the Cadnaani dialect or those of Quraysh.

Both great books nevertheless, any book that debase the common conventional wisdom and shake the foundation of any well guarded fiction or fact are worth readings.

Another great boook regarding the Islamic/Arab literature is that of the great Arab grammer/Islamic scholar Ali Dashti, his 23 years study of Mohamed's career is a book meant to question for the first time the lazy intellectualism of Muslim scholars. Ali Dashti single handedly halted the frothing Islamist, and even ridiculed Mohamed's diminutive poetry, finding grammatical errors in the Quran , numerical errors and much borrowing form the Jews and Christens. Ali Dashti vowed to lessen the Arabs intellectual bravado and hubris, and indeed he done it with class, a good reading.


Black Athena by Martin Bernal is another great book, its generated an uproar among the western/Greec civilization scholars from Cambridge to Harvad. This Jewish scholar for the first time brought what was been preached by Shekh Anta Diop(the Senegales Nuclear Phisicyst) from the fringes of scholarism to the class rooms of the West. By the time he finished publishing his 3rd book regarding the myth of Western civilizations, over 30 Aryon schorlas led by his nemesis the Jewish Prof Lefwitiski (Not Out Of Africa) author failed to counter the sheer size of his work and its ramifications. From the class rooms to the street a 10 year old debate was generated , even the western media joined in to ridicule Martin Bernal and his African scholars and supporters, 60 minute even had a prgoram on Balck Athena debate.

Martin Bernal, reduced Pythagorean Theory, Euclid's Theorem , and Solon's philosophy into a grand plagiarism, much of what was credited to the WHITE GREEC mathematicians and philosphoers were nothing but old Egyptians science and hence African, pythagorean studied in egypt over 21 years and his RIGHT ANGEL THEROY was a well esbalihsed fact 2000(in fact the the right angle theory is in an old papyrus in Moscow's museum and its 3500 years old) years by the time Pythagorean brought it to Greek and stubbed his name on it (a sq+b sq= c sq). Again what is interesting is Martin Bernal vowed to lesson the western arrogance, just as Ali Dashti, great works indeed. By the time u finish reading Sheikh Ant Diop and Martin Bernal , you will be surprised how can history be re-written in less then 200 years, and how the West monopolized and created their own myth and hence racsim was born.

Somalialight,

I always pictured you as big hipped Somali woman with thick reading glasses, most likely reading some romantic novel with a bit of age, maybe Divine Comedy or Pride and Prejudice, but never hard core literature such as philosophy.

Any way, iam a book worm and 3 year university drop out , economic major, currently a Xamaal in some western ware house.

The greatest university is freee and its the local liberary, any fool can get a little paper for some money and called it a degree or an intellcteual licence , but nothing can beat the freee for all local house of wisdom the LIBERARAY.

[Galol]

Xplaya

Great. I never heard the argument that Imr ul Qeys was hijacked for Islamist purposes but I am now fascinated given what you said. I always believed Arabs respected Al-Qeys et al for their own sake.

But I would love to hear examples of how they tried to incorporate, apart from the `natural' procession of cultural continuity, the ways in which things like the `Muallaqat' were Islamised.

[gurey25]

[quote]Al Gazali's credit is in huminizing Islam, his aesthetic life style and pioneering Sufism with much borrowing form Buddhism gave Islam a a mystical endurence. His 10 year seclusion added Sufism to Islam , from the Somali bush Dariiqa to the whirling Dervish in Turkey's is all due to Gazali's dissatisfaction with the Purist and hard line Unitarians, god is with in us and we can be one and reach Nirvana by discipline, he preached against the notion of God fearing , piety and fear don't go together, u can't just pray because u fear god u should pray because u LOVE god.
[/quote]



Al ghazali reconciled orthodoxy with Sufism as well as rationalism.
He proved it was possible to be faithfull to islam, be spiritual as well as
rational.
Do not make baseless accusations about him believeing in "waxdat al wujud" i.e that god is in all of as , that we are god.
This is the view of ibn arabi and others.


I have not had the chance of reading xay ibnu yagdaan unfortunatley,
although i know of it and ibn tufayl.
From breif description of it , it has a facinating paralell with this poem
by Robert Browning (Caliban upon Setebos), a creature contemplating the nature of his cruel GOd Setebos, a look at the nature of religion.
Really interesting i would recomend it.



The controversy about the miraclulous nature of the Quran has been discussed on several forums extensively and would serve no purpose
here. Believe whatever you want to believe.
Unable to attack the quran they demean the value of the great poems
of Pagan arabia, and the collections of the Mucalaqat, like Cantar,
with this claim that they were invented after the quran.



I knew athiests like you would love Ali dashti, even though he is persian
and arabic s not his first language, did not have training in classical arabic, fiqh or any islamic sciences, he becomes important all of a sudden
when he critises islam.




Now Here is where we finaly agree, i found Martin Bernals Black Athena
to be facinating, and i followed the debates between the Eurocentrists and Afro centrists like Anta Diop closely.
I belive the truth lies somewhere in between.
It cannot be denied that most of Greeces Culture and knowledge was borrowed from its older nieghbours Egypt and Mesopotamia.

[Cawar]

"Another great boook regarding the Islamic/Arab literature is that of the great Arab grammer/Islamic scholar Ali Dashti, his 23 years study of Mohamed's career is a book meant to question for the first time the lazy intellectualism of Muslim scholars. Ali Dashti single handedly halted the frothing Islamist, and even ridiculed Mohamed's diminutive poetry, finding grammatical errors in the Quran , numerical errors and much borrowing form the Jews and Christens. Ali Dashti vowed to lessen the Arabs intellectual bravado and hubris, and indeed he done it with class, a good reading."

Ali Dashti????

Man you should be ashamed of your lies...the guy was not even an Arab...and he is to criticize the Arabic poetry because he studied them some 2o yrs??? That is even worse than the Russian guy(fluent in Somali) criticzing the Sayid or Ali-Dhuux...given the depth and the richness of the Arabic language.



And who said that Imrul Qays was hicjacked??? If you know arabic(even by our standard)...you can clearly see what Arabic he is using and what era it belongs to.

[SomaliLight]

[quote=Af_libaax]Somalilight My bet Pragmatical girl Mataqaana micnaha Gaal-Kacyo ? hadday dadka kunool magaaladas ku ogaan lahaayeen inaa Gaal tahay , Si fiican ayaa laguu KICIN lahaa
What is the useful purpose of your education to help Somalia ? You already rejected what your grandparents and Somalia stood for ! they were expecting You to carry their Values , instead You brought into more disturbing Way of life . Please stay away keep your socioligy [/quote]

Aflibax, i think you have me confused with cawar, I am the biochemist, WTF is sociology, if anybody cares for socio-religious establishments its definitely not me!!...but don't get me wrong, i wanna bring my education back home...but I don't really care for the personal beliefs of every Farax and Halimo in the streets.The notion that i get from all of you on this forum is that you wanna live in a Somalia where everything is taboo. The way I see it, if you wanna be religious and wear a niqab thats fine you should have all the rights to do so.But in reality there will always be some Somali man who may want to wear shorts, or not go to pray on friday, and a women who may not want to wear a hijab. Now, I don't know what constricted world you want to create back home but it not realistic and not in the best interest of Somalis who are very diverse in religious practice. ...If Somalia is going to be some BIG Brother reglious country, then obviously we are all wasting our time thinking about it..

[Cawar]

"Aflibax, i think you have me confused with cawar, I am the biochemist, WTF is sociology"

SLight

WTF??? using your own words... when did I ever say I was into sociology???

Let me guess who is gonna bob up right after you out of the blue?? never mind.

[NiVea*]

Medicine and yes I hope to contribute to our peoples back home dealing with strife.

[SomaliLight]

[quote=cawar]"Aflibax, i think you have me confused with cawar, I am the biochemist, WTF is sociology"
SLight
WTF??? using your own words... when did I ever say I was into sociology???
Let me guess who is gonna bob up right after you out of the blue?? never mind[/quote]

Cawar, how is your weekend?..i am too tired tonight to change nicks, please forgive me. ..but was it not you who said you were in sociology? my bad, maybe Galol just made it up, but i honestly thought it was you...

[generalka]

Medicine! I want to specialize in helping people with drug problems, and addictions to substances. My plan is to join the DEA, get some training and do some work then go back to Somalia and start the work there.

Inshallah

[X.Playa]

"Al ghazali reconciled orthodoxy with Sufism as well as rationalism"

How absurd and silly to make such a statement, no human as of yet to reconcile Faith and rationals, mathematical logic and religion will never be reconciled. Nither Immanuel Kant or Al Gazali succeeded in their attempt to defend religion against the onslaught of pure logic. Only a fool will equate the likes of Espinoza and Descartes with religious philosophers as such Ghazali and Kant.

In order to save the divinity of a Cow a Hindu would go to a great length to justify his faith, but a simple logical deduction will humble his faith and expose the cow of just been a cow.

Ali Dashti was an Arab grammarian scholar and a Persian poet, he spent his early life to the age of 40 as a Shiyaca cleric, his work of critique in Arab and Persian poetry still are referenced, to claim he didn't speak Arabic is preposterous. Few Arab grammarians and lexicologists refuted Dashti's critique of Mohamed's prose, his numerous grammatical errors in the Quran were never challenged as yet of today, having given the Islamist a bloody nose their final argument was laughable , arguing that the Arabic grammar should be bent to fit the Quran. For exmaple any grade 9 Arabic Qawaacid(Grammar) student can notice the simple grammatical error in the Quran mentioned by Dashti:

God spkeaning in the Quran:

"faqala laha wa lel-Arad 'iteya taw'aan aw karha qaalataa atayna ta'e'een"

Sky and Earth are feminin dual nouns (Muthana Mun'ath) and the adjective Ta'e'een (Daa-iciin) is masculine and plural (Jamc Mudakar Saalim), terrible mistake to be made by God, any grade nin student will correct you to use a dual feminine noun (earth and sky) with dual feminin adcetive or verb. In this case the correct form should of been "Daai-catayn" dual and feminin, and not plural and masculine "Daa-iciin".

To argue other wise, its just pure blind faith, the Quran is not a mericale, in fact its diminutive prose was criticiced by bold schaorls such as Abu Al Calaa Al Macari who challenged the Quran verse by verse producing even much superior form of prose, Ibnu Muqafaca also imitated the Quran, and Abu Tayib Al Mutanbi etc.

Gurey its insane to dismiss such fine scholars as Daaha Xuseen and Ali Dashti to save guard the sacred cow.

To the dumb kid above, been Arab and been an Arabic scholar are 2 different things , and the fact of him been a Persian is well known.

[ABSAME']

Xplaya aka Galol, talk all you want on the net. You won't have survived one day in Somalia even in your own Iiioorland. I bet you that you dimwitted atheist bringing shame and hatred to all of us.

Gure, don't debate with this man. He is no good.

[SomaliLight]

[quote]Xplaya aka Galol, talk all you want on the net. You won't have survived one day in Somalia even in your own Iiioorland. I bet you that you dimwitted atheist bringing shame and hatred to all of us.

Gure, don't debate with this man. He is no good.[/quote]

Absame, I think you should be the last person calling anyone "dimwitted... bringing shame and hatred to all of us", All i see you doing on Snet is bashing qabils and pretend like regional seperation in Somalia doesn't exist. Few people professing disbelief in Islam is not going to hurt anyone especially a hate breeding- qabil -bashing moron like yourself. What do you think we non-believers are some Jehova-like religion and we are going to knock on your doors with fliers of Darwinism? How would you even know Galol or any other person was a non-believer walking down the streets of xamar, if he doesn't tell you? my point exactly, Somalia has always naturally housed all kinds of Islamically unacceptable people such as Reer baadiye pagans, supertitious muslims, religuosly uneducated muslims, kafirs, and there is really not much you can do to regulate belief, unless you wish to establish a fascist regime in Somalia?