Microcosm of Somali Problem

[Xamud.]

Forever red herring you are criticising MSB(AUN) for the same actions you called for in this very thread. Ilahayow hana waalin

[Lancer]

ama ooya ama ha ooyinin Somaliland xuduudeda wa lagaranaya qofna
especially the pirates waxba nagama qaadi kartiin ..End of discussion

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I didn't call for genocide. Red Herring? How about evading my questions and not backing up your emotional nonsense about "oppression" with any proof or facts?

MSB, a man that has the blood of thousands of innocent souls on his hands is "AUN"? But I, an online username you don't even know, am a genocidal maniac? Computerka iska xidh ninyow.

[thegoodshepherd]

Can you tell me what you mean by "far east"? If you are talking about Sanaag and Sool regions, then you are wrong. Because as I've explained a hundred times, Isaaq vastly outnumber any other clan in those regions even if you add smaller clans like Dir and fiqishini to Harti. If you mean the narrow areas bordering Puntland which is in contention, then I don't see your point.

Harti??
war ma Harti ayad maanta laangaab ku sheegtay? Shimbiryow heesa

[Xamud.]

Look, I don't care to know you or what you stand for, I never went out of my way to label you anything, you quoted me, once here, and once in that other post in the Puntland section, weliba you went ahead and cried about me me being a munafiq for not calling out "some random online username I don't even know" when he made the very same remarks you just made.

What you seem to not understand is that you are in fact displaying the very same sentiments he did when he praised the killing of innocent human beings. Waxad tahay eey naaso leh oo aan gar musliin iyo gar gaalo toona goyn karin.


Now fuck off and stop crying about MSB(AUN)to me, I did not take part in the killings nor do I endorse the killing of civilians, I'm not you.

[Xildiiid]

Xamud,

My sub clan took over Buhoodle in 1988,1989,1990 and 91 despite the town being home to SNA forces made up by all Somalis + Dhulbahante miltia armed by Ina Dafle, the clan militia that took over the town was intially lead by my uncle. Are you telling me that the Somaliland army, that got 10000x more weapons and man power than my sub clan, can't take over Buhoodle?

I've seen how you repeat lies about the Kalshaale war because of clan sentiments but the whole issue started between Solomadow a sub sub clan of Nuux Maxamed (HJ) vs Dhulbahante. My sub clan built wells in Kalshaale (at that time a shared grazing land) and the Dhulbahante opposed the wells despite their right to build similar wells, according to Sharia Law (elders and religious scholars tried to solve the problem), they opposed because they claimed the land was theirs. The government of Somaliland asked my sub clan to bury the wells for the greater good of the district and they compensated the specific family that owned the wells. A military force was stationed between the clans in order to keep the peace and it was this force the SSC militia attacked. Even after being attacked, Siilaanyo stopped the military force from manhandling the SSC militia and take over Buhoodle like Jidhif (the main general) wanted. This decision is one of the failures Siilaanyo will be known for, nonetheless. If the army was ordered to take over Buhoodle, they would siege that dusty town within 40 minutes.

Who's talking about colonial borders? Somaliland gained independence on June 26,1960. The borders of Somaliland republic stopped being colonial borders, belonging to the United Kingdom, the day Somaliland stopped being a protectorare. Secondly, the OAU in the 1964, decided that the borders of each African country, at the time of independence, was going to remain the same in order to prevent future conflicts.


What's SSC?

Sool is shared between HJ, HY and Dhulbahante. It wasn't that long ago when HY nomads and Dhulbahante clashed in Xargaga (north of Las Canood), resulting in the deaths of 5 Dhulbahantes. Dhulbahante can't set foot in 50% of Sool, that land belongs to the Isaaq sub sub clans of HJ and HY.

Sanaag is out of question for Dhulbahante. They do not have a single district and they can only claim two cities (Fiqifuliye and Awrbogays). The rest waxaa iska leh HY followed by HJ and then Warsangeli. The largest town Ceerigaabo (HY) and the second largest town Ceel Afweyn (HJ). Isaaq is 80% of Sanaag and 60% of the land belongs to Isaaq.


There's no such thing as Cayn. The etymology of the name Cayn comes from Caynaba and that city is to Dhulbahante what Jerusalem was to Jews pre 1940's. Caynaba is settled by HJ. If you're talking about Buhoodle district in Togdheer ( a 95% Isaaq region), I can tell you that the district is shared between my sub clan Solomadow and Dhulbahante. They claim Kalshaale but they can't come near Kalshaale. They claim Qorilugud, they can't come near Qorilugud. They claim Qabri Huluul, they can't come near Qabri Huluul. They claim Coodanle, they can't come near Coodanle and etc. All these places they claim is in this mythical 'Cayn' region they always talk about.

Somaliland is the same Somaliland that gained independence on June 26, 1960, the first Somali state to gain independence. It was Isaaq that gave up Somaliland for the greater good of all Somalis and today we're reclaiming that country and frankly we could care less about cockroaches opposing Somaliland. Cidna loo joojin maayo.

[LightAtNight]

Walaal I didn't mean it as an insult. In fact I was saying we should have been more ruthless like you guys - especially since we suffered the most. It's no secret Isaaq is the most decent and level-headed clan. I'm not blowing my own horn, it's a just general perception.

Every clan views itself as they good guy, perception is not reality. Anyway I dont know why people getting emotional, let bygones be bygones and live in peace, nothing more boring and frustrating than perpetually dwelling on in the past events, it gets tiring after a while. If its just madhadaalo and entertainment with no hard feelings then iska bashaala I suppose.

[Xildiiid]

These Isaaq youth have been indoctrinated to yell and scream about their sufferings like some Jews. You weren't innocent victims and bystanders. If all Daroods are responsible for the massacre in the North West, then all Isaaqs are responsible for the massacre against MJs in Mudug during the late 70s. Not only were your people in the front lines, one of your own commanded the entire thing. So, if anything, Morgan was settling scores.

Now you want to come on Snet talking about how you're gob and playing the victim card, acting like you did Daroods any favors by not committing "another Utanga". Funny thing is you forget that you're refugees or the product of refugees in a western country too. If you could have done anything with your World War 2 relics, you would have.

First of all, there's no such thing as North West.

Waqooyi Galbeed was the original region that was split into Awdal and Maroodi Jeex by the Afweyne regime in an attempt to minimize Isaaq dominance. Just like Sanaag and Sool were carved out of Togdheer.

It was a Darood lead regime that modified Somali history in order to justify a war on Isaaq and they used the resources of the State to wage this war.

Secondly, who are these Isaaq that committed crimes against people in Mudug. I always hear about them but this far no one has presented names or evidence.

Are you denying the fact that Isaaq chose to forgive when they had every right to murder, rape and loot the clans who committed similar crimes against their people? The truth is, If we wanted we could've done something much worse, than the USC did, with our 'WW2 relics'.

Even the SNM opposed revenge killings..

Isaak refugees we interviewed expressed anger at the stiff warnings they received from the SNM not to take revenge against civilian non-combatants who were not involved in the war. When non-Isaak civilians were armed, the SNM regarded them as an integral part of the government's fighting forces, and as such, legitimate targets to attack.

HRW - A government at war with its people

The fact remains we're gob.

We're not like the xaaraami Darood that looted and starved 200.000 Raxanweyns to death when they couldn't defeat Caydiid and USC.

[LightAtNight]

These Isaaq youth have been indoctrinated to yell and scream about their sufferings like some Jews. You weren't innocent victims and bystanders. If all Daroods are responsible for the massacre in the North West, then all Isaaqs are responsible for the massacre against MJs in Mudug during the late 70s. Not only were your people in the front lines, one of your own commanded the entire thing. So, if anything, Morgan was settling scores.

Now you want to come on Snet talking about how you're gob and playing the victim card, acting like you did Daroods any favors by not committing "another Utanga". Funny thing is you forget that you're refugees or the product of refugees in a western country too. If you could have done anything with your World War 2 relics, you would have.

That commander took orders from a Darood president...... you cant always give things a qabill dimension when none is there

[uglybrother]

In other words "why don't you guys remain silent while we gang up on you and kill you"? It doesn't matter who is doing the killing. Maybe the dhulbahante might be wrong in welcoming Ethiopia while they fight somaliland while they suffer at the hands of the aforementioned groups equally, it does not mean they should also welcome sland in open arms. Two wrongs don't make a right. They are right in resisting sland and all they have to do is resist Ethiopia as well.

[Buraanbur]

These Isaaq youth have been indoctrinated to yell and scream about their sufferings like some Jews. You weren't innocent victims and bystanders. If all Daroods are responsible for the massacre in the North West, then all Isaaqs are responsible for the massacre against MJs in Mudug during the late 70s. Not only were your people in the front lines, one of your own commanded the entire thing. So, if anything, Morgan was settling scores.

Now you want to come on Snet talking about how you're gob and playing the victim card, acting like you did Daroods any favors by not committing "another Utanga". Funny thing is you forget that you're refugees or the product of refugees in a western country too. If you could have done anything with your World War 2 relics, you would have.

That commander took orders from a Darood president...... you cant always give things a qabill dimension when its none is there

And the commander who is responsible for the events these kids cry about was taking order from the same President. You can't change the narrative when it doesn't suit you. Either the gov used state resources to commit mass murder against its own civilians or clans/tribes are responsible for the events on an individual level. It's one or the other.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Xildiid, waxan ha ku daalin ninyow. They can't substantiate one single claim they make. In reality, every argument with them should be aborted at the beginning because they can't bring proof. Just look at the one I was arguing with comparing me to Afweyne They like to minimise the suffering of thousands by obfuscating the argument with baseless counter-claims of alleged SNM killings of mythical people in Mudug.

Or my personal favourite line; "SNM killed thousands in Buuhoodle and Las anod" from one side of their mouths and "Isaaq SNM can't take Buuhoodle because they'll be killed and sent to their graves" from the other side. Which is it? Either Isaaq Big bad bogeyman is killing innocent Buuhoodle and Las Anod civilians or Isaaq are pussies and Buuhodle alone is enough to stand up to the whole of Somaliland and Isaaq?

[Buraanbur]

These Isaaq youth have been indoctrinated to yell and scream about their sufferings like some Jews. You weren't innocent victims and bystanders. If all Daroods are responsible for the massacre in the North West, then all Isaaqs are responsible for the massacre against MJs in Mudug during the late 70s. Not only were your people in the front lines, one of your own commanded the entire thing. So, if anything, Morgan was settling scores.

Now you want to come on Snet talking about how you're gob and playing the victim card, acting like you did Daroods any favors by not committing "another Utanga". Funny thing is you forget that you're refugees or the product of refugees in a western country too. If you could have done anything with your World War 2 relics, you would have.

First of all, there's no such thing as North West.

Waqooyi Galbeed was the original region that was split into Awdal and Maroodi Jeex by the Afweyne regime in an attempt to minimize Isaaq dominance. Just like Sanaag and Sool were carved out of Togdheer.

It was a Darood lead regime that modified Somali history in order to justify a war on Isaaq and they used the resources of the State to wage this war.

Secondly, who are these Isaaq that committed crimes against people in Mudug. I always hear about them but this far no one has presented names or evidence.

Are you denying the fact that Isaaq chose to forgive when they had every right to murder, rape and loot the clans who committed similar crimes against their people? The truth is, If we wanted we could've done something much worse, than the USC did, with our 'WW2 relics'.

Even the SNM opposed revenge killings..

Isaak refugees we interviewed expressed anger at the stiff warnings they received from the SNM not to take revenge against civilian non-combatants who were not involved in the war. When non-Isaak civilians were armed, the SNM regarded them as an integral part of the government's fighting forces, and as such, legitimate targets to attack.

HRW - A government at war with its people

The fact remains we're gob.

We're not like the xaaraami Darood that looted and starved 200.000 Raxanweyns to death when they couldn't defeat Caydiid and USC.

1) I oppose the kacaan and kacaan revisionist history.
2) I would never support mass murder against innocent civilians.
3) The first group the kacaan government used state resources against were the SSDF and the commander was Habane. Many of the troops who were sent to kill, rape, and loot were Isaaq. You don't hear about it because we have moved on but if you're gonna play this little game of who suffered the first at the hands of the regime, it is the Majerteen. Our leaders were jailed and tortured after the kacaan regime took over in 69 and our people massacred in the late 70s. At least there were people with a conscience who refused to fly the planes in the late 80s, the same is not true for the events of the late 70s. The government killing its own citizens only became a problem for Isaaqs when they were the victims. It was all gravy when they were leading the charge as the perpetrators.
4) You couldn't have done anything then and you can't do anything now. If you could, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[LightAtNight]

You see the thing is, if the President was a Darood and the commander was Isaaq, it can be perceived as something that is not qabill motivated..... granted the commander could be overzealous in his task but at the end of the day he did not make the choice. But if the President and a government which is dominated by people that hail from the same clan devote the machinery and resources of the nation is suppressing an upraising that is being done by people of another Clan who have traditional rivalry with ruling clan, then everything changes and becomes about qabiil, even though this may not be an entirely accurate picture. Its always a mix of factors and nothing is clear cut

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

These Isaaq youth have been indoctrinated to yell and scream about their sufferings like some Jews. You weren't innocent victims and bystanders. If all Daroods are responsible for the massacre in the North West, then all Isaaqs are responsible for the massacre against MJs in Mudug during the late 70s. Not only were your people in the front lines, one of your own commanded the entire thing. So, if anything, Morgan was settling scores.

Now you want to come on Snet talking about how you're gob and playing the victim card, acting like you did Daroods any favors by not committing "another Utanga". Funny thing is you forget that you're refugees or the product of refugees in a western country too. If you could have done anything with your World War 2 relics, you would have.

1) You lost your argument right there when you legitimised the murder of innocent civilians because of the alleged clan affiliation of one commander during the war. You are basically saying that all those who were killed or raped are to blame for their own misery because of one spurious commander.

2) Can you give me the name and rank of this Isaaq commander that gave the order to murder these people in Mudug?

3) Can you give me the number of people in the region that were killed directly because of this alleged commander's order?

4) And most importantly, can you give me documented proof from independent sources as well as eye witness accounts of the these alleged incidents?