Maay is a language, not a dialect.

[JSL3000]

Mighty,

It seems that Mr Said M-Shidad Hussein is also an expert in the prevention of Somali droughts:

http://english.alshahid.net/archives/22442

His writing is utterly laughable and without merit. If he has any academic standing at all, I have been unable to find it. I suggest you try the Library of Congress piece again.

Of course the archaeological discoveries in the North are exciting, but there is no necessary connection to Somalis, who didn't reach the Red Sea coast until the first century.

Loool Your Bantu Professor Eno Can't even write proper english. Kusow and Enow need an editor, their paper has really terrible grammar.
So dont come and try and dis prof Mr. Said M-Shidad Hussein. If all you got is empty ad Homiinems then there is no validity in what you say.

Archeological & linguistical evidence comfirm that there has been no migration to northern somalia, . Instead from North to West and South. The Omo Tana is no longer a valid theory. for that to happen then a population change must have been measured and there hasn't been any.

If you check the Egyptian portrait of the queen of Puntland you will notice that she has pronounced Steatopygia, absolutely not a Somali trait.

Do you even read? Based on who? Is that why somali women have unproportional butts? to the point we call them futo baruur?

Enough of your Bantufied Unprofessional opinions and Ad hominems . Lets see what Anthropologists say. Many have noted it.

https://books.google.no/books?id=hCb6xz ... li&f=false
Steatopygia is common in mature Somali women, especially among the true pastorial tribes.

The thing about rich Somali men lining up women and seeing which booty sticks out the furthest is straight out of Sir Richard Burton's First Footsteps in East Africa (or A Journey to Harar).

picture Example of Streatopygia in Mature Somali women

The indigenous people of the Horn when the Somalis arrived were the Bon or Boonta. These became the Midgan , Madhibaan, and other despised minority groups.

http://madhibaan.org/faq/faq-history.htm
http://madhibaan.org/

The Somalis are relative latecomers.

Absoulute nonsense.Madiban are somalis so i dont see what you are trying to prove Raxanweyn's are somali Ethnics not a minority group as well

So you cannot try and disconnect them from us in your bantu revisonist attempt. Somalis migrated from north then south and west. Raxanweyn and Madhiban are clans part of the Somali ethnic grouping.
https://books.google.no/books?id=hCb6xz ... li&f=false

Stop posting your bantu girlfriend pic up here you got desperate pal

[Grant]

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories ... 082003.htm



It looks like some overzealous Somalilander tried to "correct" the pose at some point. Note the chisel marks.

There is booty and then there is booty.

[BlueBlood]

how come we dont have a single rahaweyn on this site though they are among the laandheers ? it would have been nice to see their opinion on this topic

[Djiboutian]

Regarding Prof. Mansuur first video

1- He claimed Musa Haji Ismail Jalal is not linguist. If he is not, who is?

2- As for Gandi, which one he is talking about? Mohamed Abdi Mohamed "Gandhi", the former President of Jubaland, or Yusuf Ismail Samatar "Gandhi", Minister of Education in Somali Republic 1962-1964? The latter is from the north and I don't think he ever talked about Maay Maay language.

1- Musa Haji Ismail Galal was a Polymath like Osman Yusuf Kenadid basically a writer more of a historian not a certified linguist

2- dunno the discussion was about Intellectuals, not politicians.

Check this out: http://www.self.gutenberg.org/articles/somali_studies

Musa Haji Ismail Galal was linguist unlike Osman Yusuf Kendiid.

On the first video, one of the audience was not happy with what Mr. Musa H. I. Galal wrote about Maay Maay language just because he is from the north " Somaliland ". He even called Mr. Gandhi who is from Kismayo a "Northern" although he is from a city which is south of his own regions "Bay & Bakool".

P.S. As much as I respect your sense of "Somalinimo" but the reality is Horn of Africa " So called Somaliweyn" consists of many ethnic groups. Unless you realize that you'll keep fighting and looting eachothers while waving Somali Flag. Digil & Mirifle were like you 500 years ago until an Arabian Sharif came and set laws and regulations for Digil & Mirifle and other clans who live with them.

Each tribe or region should be studied separately.

[TheMightyNomad]

Musa Haji Ismail Galal was linguist unlike Osman Yusuf Kendiid.

he is a polymath. just like Kenadiid. Linguist,historian,scholar writer. Not a expert any particular subject.

On the first video, one of the audience was not happy with what Mr. Musa H. I. Galal wrote about Maay Maay language just because he is from the north " Somaliland ". He even called Mr. Gandhi who is from Kismayo a "Northern" although he is from a city which is south of his own regions "Bay & Bakool".

P.S. As much as I respect your sense of "Somalinimo" but the reality is Horn of Africa " So called Somaliweyn" consists of many ethnic groups. Unless you realize that you'll keep fighting and looting eachothers while waving Somali Flag. Digil & Mirifle were like you 500 years ago until an Arabian Sharif came and set laws and regulations for Digil & Mirifle and other clans who live with them.

Each tribe or region should be studied separately.

Prof. Mansuur is a linguist and from Raxanweyn clan Profieciently fluent in both AF May Tereh and Af Maxa Tiri, because of that he is more credible than any of these Psuedo Intellectuals.

SomaliWeyn Consist of 90+ Somali ethnic group. Somalinimo or Somali Identity is a threat to caniving people like Grant,Bantus and Oppurtunistic somalis. They all seek to expoit our vunerable state for their own personal interests or hatred for us.

They would rather attack the somali identity and seperate us and just disect and destroy us completly.Erode our culture values and sell of our land to distant ethnic groups. The bantus are either trying to assume our identity or attack it and one way is to convince our Raxanweyn brothers that they are seperate from us and closer to them even against their will.

Somalia Waa Hal. We are one Ethnic group divided into Clan Families, yet this one is so toxic to the Anti-Somali agenda

Also we will be vigilant with the fifth column Somalis who are intent on forcing us to take foreign ideology. Those people are actually more dangerous to us, as they are promoting the ideology of the same people who put us the situation we are in today.

[gurey25]

its in our genes.
I have 2 relatives with the same booty.

[Grant]

its in our genes.
I have 2 relatives with the same booty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia

"Steatopygia would seem to have been a characteristic of a population which once extended from the Gulf of Aden to the Cape of Good Hope, of which stock Khoisan and Pygmies are remnants. Among the Khoisan, it begins in infancy and is fully developed by the time of the first pregnancy. To them the voluptuous body is a sign of beauty, good health and fertility. While the Khoisan afford the most noticeable examples of its development, it is by no means rare in other parts of Africa.

It has been suggested that this feature was once more widespread. Paleolithic Venus figurines, sometimes referred to as "Steatopygian Venus" figures, discovered from Europe to Asia presenting a remarkable development of the thighs, and even the prolongation of the labia minora, have been used to support this theory.[3] Whether these were intended to be lifelike or exaggeratory, even idealistic, is unknown. These figures do not qualify as Steatopygian, since they exhibit an angle of approximately 120 degrees between the back and the buttocks,[4] while Steatopygia is diagnosed by modern medical standards at an angle of about 90 degrees only."
---------------------------------------------

The booty on a Venus of Willendorf type figure is at about 120 degrees to the back. Steatopygia is defined as 90 degrees and is usually limited to those of Koisan descent. You can serve dinner back there.

I had no idea your family was mixed....

[gurey25]

damn are you saying its that rare?
those 2 relatives are distant cousins, and that line of our family is gifted with exceptional mathematical and scientific talent.
out of 10 of them 2 are electronic engineers, one is a geologist, 2 mathematicians and the rest doctors.
i met another one that is a geeljire and never left the bush, he can repair all electronics by fiddling with it, never seen a dvd player, yet fixed it,
fixed the TV, and knows how to set up a Local area network and configuring cisco routers after watching me doing it once.

so with those big Steatopygia asses they seem to have inherited some talent too.

my side of th family are the slower, artistic ones.

[V32]

Estimate of divergence between Borana and Somali/Maay/Rendille speakers: 2000 years ago, reason being change in lifestyle, adoption of Camel pastoralism over Cattle pastoralism.
Estimate divergence between Somali and Maay/Rendille speakers: 1500-1000 years ago, reason being influence of Arabic due to spead of Islam
Estimate of divergence between Maay and Rendille speakers: 700 years ago, reason being Ajuuraan conquest of southern Somalia

These are completely bullshit divergence dates... "Macro-Somali" itself seemingly began diverging around 1000 BCE (as in what is designated as "Somali" here but is really "Proto-Somali" in a sense: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-P8a4 ... sp=sharing and Rendille and co. cut up around then). "Borana" / "Oromoid" in general cut-off from whatever was ancestral to "Proto-Somali" and languages Rendille over 3,000 years ago (you're a complete lunatic if you think "Macro-Somali" (whatever one wishes to label this grouping) and "Oromoid" diverged 2,000 years ago):

~4000 BCE: Proto-East-South Cushitic possibly spoken
~2800 BCE: Lowland East Cushitic, Highland East Cushitic and Dullay diverge from Proto-East Cushitic
~1800 BCE: "Macro-Somali", Afar-Saho & Oromoid diverge from Lowland East Cushitic
~1000 BCE: "Macro-Somali" diverges

These divergence dates are much deeper than imbeciles on here have been making them out to be. Also, the Arabic influence in "Maxa Tiri" is not significant at all. Nomad-boy can be a little too ethno-nationalist but he's damn right here in that Maxa Tiri is solidly Cushitic and not noticeably influenced in terms of what actually f-king matters to linguists when looking at genetic relationships between languages (i.e. morphology & phonology). The influences from Arabic are pretty much just lexical and aren't even close to being "comprehensive" (i.e. Maxa Tiri's lexicon is by no means close to being totally Arabic or Indo-Aryan).

Here's why a language's lexicon means jack compared to features like morphology so you'll understand:

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showth ... ht=maltese (post no. 5 by "Semitic Duwa" aptly explains things)

"Maxa Tiri" could lexically be 100% Arabic and it, in terms of what matters for linguist classification, wouldn't even be remotely extra-diverged from Af-Maay. Anyway, the reason Maxa Tiri sounds the way it does is because it's rather conservative when compared to the Sidamic languages, the whole Maay-Tunni bunch and Oromoid and has avoided certain innovations and contacts between them in the more southerly regions of the Horn most likely because it, like Saho-Afar, which have also preserved traits like pharyngeal & velar fricatives (preserved not inherited from Arabic, no proof for this), has remained rather isolated from them for quite some time. I'd wager about 2,000-2,500 years or so but one can't be too sure at this point.

Just more classic examples of James Dahl spewing nonsense... Watch him change his tune on these matters 2 years from now (I suppose this is a good thing?). A few years back he'd concluded that all of the Somali coast was conquered by the Caliphates and that Somalis were the descendants of Arabs and local peoples (with no proof but bullshit oral traditions) until the genetic data contradicted him big-time and now he's taking a crack at actual science (archaeology, linguistics etc.) but butchering it...

[Jaidi]

how come we dont have a single rahaweyn on this site though they are among the laandheers ? it would have been nice to see their opinion on this topic

@Shirib

[shimbiraale]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect#Di ... r_Language

There is no universally accepted criterion for distinguishing a language from a dialect.

My hunch is that in general Somali politics favors unity, whereas European politics favors separation, thus speakers of Dutch and German would hate to think that they were speaking dialects of the same language. Conversely in general it is useful for the notion of Somali unity, that there is only one "Somali"

Note that (accoring to WP) the distinction is so unclear that some linguists consider "Dialect" and "Language" to be synonyms, and that a dialect can also be a language. Thus "Af Maay tiri is a language that is a dialect of Af Soomaali" would not be an illogical statement.

So the question becomes (Are Somali intellectuals that desperate to commit ethnic,economic and cultural suicide? What is wrong with calling Af- Maay tiri a dialect?

Where is the consideration in this?

You have a point.

It is often said that "a language is a dialect with an army and navy". One could only assume that the main intention behind claiming two dialects are two separate languages is to strengthen national identity. Take, for example, the nation of Canada. Their national language is English and French. The predominant culture is nearly indistinguishable from American culture. So what differentiates them as a nation? That is a question that even Canadians struggle to answer. If there was a English dialect different from the one used in America, then they might then claim it as a separate language and base a stronger sense of national identity on that.

Most speakers of standard Somali would say that they cannot understand af Maay Maay. But for unity's sake, af Maay Maay is recognized as a dialect of Somali. In contrast, Scandinavian languages (Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian) are mutually intelligible. One might assume they would be considered dialects of the same language but they are considered separate languages. But for the purpose of strengthening national identity, they claim each dialect as a language. It is a pity that politics affects the study of linguistics but we live in a world where political identity and motives permeate most facets of life.

[TheMightyNomad]

You have a point.

It is often said that "a language is a dialect with an army and navy". One could only assume that the main intention behind claiming two dialects are two separate languages is to strengthen national identity. Take, for example, the nation of Canada. Their national language is English and French. The predominant culture is nearly indistinguishable from American culture. So what differentiates them as a nation? That is a question that even Canadians struggle to answer. If there was a English dialect different from the one used in America, then they might then claim it as a separate language and base a stronger sense of national identity on that.

Most speakers of standard Somali would say that they cannot understand af Maay Maay. But for unity's sake, af Maay Maay is recognized as a dialect of Somali. In contrast, Scandinavian languages (Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian) are mutually intelligible. One might assume they would be considered dialects of the same language but they are considered separate languages. But for the purpose of strengthening national identity, they claim each dialect as a language. It is a pity that politics affects the study of linguistics but we live in a world where political identity and motives permeate most facets of life.

Well said, finally someone who understands what i'm saying.

It is poltical , everything is political nowadays. You have like french ,chinese and japanese languages which are mutually unintelligible yet recognized as the same language for social political reasons.

I don't see the problem of keeping Af maay as a dialect of Af Soomaali. It is more related to Af-Maxa tiri then any other language and it wont change anything to be frank.

People who wish to make it a non-Somali language have an agenda which is not in our interests or developement. We need to be wary of them, these folks act like they do things for romantic reasons and have all the pretty rhetoric to back them(The word ''diversity'' being among others), but if you look closely they are either exploiting our vurnerable state or have sinister motives.

[GalliumerianSlayer]

A dialect.