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Post by **AbdiWahab252** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:40 am

Kamal, they were lieing in ambush the whole time.

There was very little resistance offered and the choppers were flying low to the ground.

The battle started near the Olympic hotel after a botched attempt on kidnapping some SNA members.

It was a classic ambush like the ones at the landing Zones in Vietnam War. All is quiet until you come close to the anticraft battery ranges

gurey25 · Post by **gurey25** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:45 am

My opinion is that you guys foked up.
You could have killed a 100 americans that day at least but you only got 18.

probably becuase the people fighting were not experienced SNA but just pissed of Habar gidir with AK's.

Post by **AbdiWahab252** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:47 am

Gurey.... No, Aideed knew when to call it off. With 100 fatalities, the F-16s would have bombed us into extinction.

18 sent a message. 100 would bring annhilation

Cawar · Post by **Cawar** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:48 am

How many somalis died???

I heard some estimation...in the range of 5 or 10 ks??

Post by **AbdiWahab252** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:50 am

13,000 Somalis died in the clashes starting in June 1993 to October 1993. This is a ICRC estimate.

Cawar · Post by **Cawar** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:51 am

AW, I am talking about those 2 days only..???

Post by **AbdiWahab252** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:53 am

Cawar, About 1,000. Of which about 100 were the SNA milita regulars.

Kamal35 · Post by **Kamal35** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:55 am

Were civilians also involved in the battle? I mean, common fathers going out home with weapons? Or were only the militias who took part of the fight?

Post by **AbdiWahab252** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:59 am

Kamal.... There was no choice. It was either fight today or face death from rival clans who would move on you once you were defeated, disarmed, and vunerable.

The whole hunt for Aideed became a much bigger cause because defeat would mean that all the rival clans would move on to destroy the Habar Gidir

Kamal35 · Post by **Kamal35** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:03 am

I read that the American troops could run away because, after so many hours of battle, the Somalis were tired and went home to sleep. I know that Mad Mac can't reply to this question, but you can as a witness there. Were only American Rangers involved in the battle, or were also the so-called Delta Forces?

Steeler [Crawler2] · Post by **Steeler [Crawler2]** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:11 am

Abdi
Some of the things you are saying here are NOT accurrate - although some of it is pretty good.

The Malays and the Pakis both fought with the QRF the night of 3-4 October. Frankly, without their help, it would have been much more difficult and much bloodier to get to the Rangers since they brought armor to the fight. The Malays lost one KIA and Seven WIA in the fight. The Pakis were not trying to prove anything - we were tight with the Pakis and had helped them on several occassions as well. But they had limited night fighting capability. So besides the five M-48 tanks, they didn't offer much else until we got to the stadium after the fight.

It was not a classic ambush. You did not know we were coming. Hell, the decision to go and where to go to was not decided until the last minute, and Task Force Ranger did not even inform us, the QRF, until they were on the ground in Wardiglei. BUT, the population in that neighborhood was well armed and it was able to respond fairly quickly. TF Ranger had conducted five operations prior, and their procedures were known to the SNA. Thus the reaction to TF Ranger arrival was quicker than heretofore. Nevertheless, had the first blackhawk not been hit, TF Ranger would have egressed and the whole bloody fight would not have happened.

You say we failed to get the targetted individuals. This is not true. 24 men, including the two target individuals, were taken that day.

I am really surprised how closely your casualty estimates match mine. I had 105 SNA militia KIA and upwards of 1,000 Haber Gedir total killed that day. Overall estimates of Haber Gedir killed during the four months of conflict are 10,000. Pretty damn close.

Your rationale for why the SNA was fighting us does not match mine, but I do find it interesting.

You and I really should sit down some time and shoot the shit over lunch. It would be a great conversation. Lastly, the 10th Mountain Division Historian is now writing the history of the division. If you could somehow verify that you fought there (and I might be able to help with that) I am sure he would love to gain your insight. The fight is over, so I can assure you, from our side there's no hard feelings. You interested?

Kamal35 · Post by **Kamal35** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:18 am

It would be really great, indeed.

Now I understand the point of the Habar Gdir fighting to death against the American while other Somalis were welcoming the Americans in the Mogadishu Mile Run...

I heard that Rangers in the Mogadishu Mile were really LEFT BEHIND by the rescue troops and vehicles, which runned too fast for their (Rangers) running on foot. Is that true?

Post by **AbdiWahab252** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:22 am

MAD... Those Pakis were seen allowing SNA regulars to pass through and it is even rumored that they allowed the SNA to receive some of the confiscated weaponry. They were fed up of being used and abused:

The Pakis would be sent to clean up some sector. Soon after the fighting is over, in come the Yanks.

I dispute your claim your mission was a secret. It was known you were coming but not the exact locations. The SNA targeted men were captured which I do agree with but the mission was BOTCHED because it did not go according to plan and was a disaster.

MAD... I personally did not know or care of Aideed that much. The one event which got many HGs esp. among the Sacad clan was when the US assasinated the peaceniks of the HG at the Abdi House. It was the 1 event which drove many to support Aideed. The men killed by the US cobras were there actually to find a compromise and peace with the UNOSOM II forces and this if it occured would have undermined Aideed.

ABout your offer, no thanks buddy. Maybe, someday when I am in Somalia and a member of the government will we talk. It could be part of the OPERATION BRIGHT STAR revival exercises.

Kamal35 · Post by **Kamal35** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:45 am

Abdiwahab: I'm not agree. In the same way Mark Bowden wrote his fantastic book 'Black Hawk Down' (nothing to do with the movie), it would be great to read a book written from the Somali side for we all to have an accurate idea of what really happened in Somalia during that battle. Have you ever read Mark Bowden's book? It's worthy. You're a really good writer, so that's not a bad idea...

Cawar · Post by **Cawar** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:50 am

K & A ,

Any person who writes a book about this battle will be biased esp. when he or she was involved emotionally or even physically.

But yeah it would be nice to see different perpectives, although this war didnt shape or had any big influence in the somali politics in general.

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