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I dont want to be expert on dervish history, I just want to educate my self, if you know history your judgement is always right or close to the truth. months ago I didnt know nothing about dervishes, in fact I beleived that dervishes killed only somalis and and up to 4 whites just like alshabaab of today, after reading some books I found out they killed tens if not hundreds of high ranked british officers and ofcourse there is evidences that they used to indiscriminately (no particular clan) ride somalis in order to force them join or take their animals. I found out some interesting military strategies done by the dervishes. For example they destroyed all the crops in jigjiga knowing that habashes can not adapt meat only diet. After the habeshas stayef hawd for a while The habeshas retreated back to their country because of grain shortage lool.

I knew nothing about haji sudi and sultan nur, I thought igare was civil servant but he was actually a military figure. I thought the mullah was born in buhotle or zone 5 now I know that the mullah was born in kiridh 30 km west of caynabo. I thought cismacil mire was was the only highy ranked dervish after the mullah but I am still strugling to find out his military or political role other than his poets, all good poets are famous in the somali communities . I find confusing about his ragaw kibirka and amakaagay goortay wankii adhaxda tuujeen gabays. One gabay shows he lived under the authority of arab dheere ages after the dervish leaders died, I (26 yrs old) personally chewed with hussein arab dheere so his fathers history was recent. The other gabay shows that mire was actually a badawi he was robbed by dilaals because of his reer miyi appearance lool. If any one of you have primary sources about mire's political ot military role please share.

theyuusuf143 wrote:I dont want to be expert on dervish history, I just want to educate my self, if you know history your judgement is always right or close to the truth. months ago I didnt know nothing about dervishes, in fact I beleived that dervishes killed only somalis and and up to 4 whites just like alshabaab of today, after reading some books I found out they killed tens if not hundreds of high ranked british officers and ofcourse there is evidences that they used to indiscriminately (no particular clan) ride somalis in order to force them join or take their animals. I found out some interesting military strategies done by the dervishes. For example they destroyed all the crops in jigjiga knowing that habashes can not adapt meat only diet. After the habeshas stayef hawd for a while The habeshas retreated back to their country because of grain shortage lool.

I knew nothing about haji sudi and sultan nur, I thought igare was civil servant but he was actually a military figure. I thought the mullah was born in buhotle or zone 5 now I know that the mullah was born in kiridh 30 km west of caynabo. I thought cismacil mire was was the only highy ranked dervish after the mullah but I am still strugling to find out his military or political role other than his poets, all good poets are famous in the somali communities . I find confusing about his ragaw kibirka and amakaagay goortay wankii adhaxda tuujeen gabays. One gabay shows he lived under the authority of arab dheere ages after the dervish leaders died, I (26 yrs old) personally chewed with hussein arab dheere so his fathers history was recent. The other gabay shows that mire was actually a badawi he was robbed by dilaals because of his reer miyi appearance lool. If any one of you have primary sources about mire's political ot military role please share.

The Dervish killed less around 12 white soldiers their names and ranks are recorded and at same time they caused directly and indirectly the annihilation of over 30,000 nomads between 1911 and 1913.

In jigjiga no Dervish fought that battle all 500 Dervish majority ogaden and madhibaan stayed in Haradigeed and chose to send the poor ogaden , sheeekhaal , oromo and gadabursi and some Isaac to a suicide mission no Dervish fought there.

Ismaaciil Mire the poster child of Daaroodist Kacaan never participated in all the majors wars of the Dervish from 1899 to a1904 . In fact he joined the Dervish around 1910-1911. He was described by Ismay in 1918 in one sentence " a soldier and a bard " where the rest of the old Dervish were described in a paragraph even xaaji yusuf Jama Taminlaahi who joined the Dervish around 1914 held a better rank then him and had participated in more mission then Ismaaciil mire.

Thanks, I would love to see it.Whats the name of tha book about General Ismay's mission in Somaliland ? I found that he (Ismay) later became The first Secretary General of NATO from 1952 to 1957, and that he died in 1965 aged 78 years old.

theyuusuf143 wrote:Thanks, I would love to see it.Whats the name of tha book about General Ismay's mission in Somaliland ? I found that he (Ismay) later became The first Secretary General of NATO from 1952 to 1957, and that he died in 1965 aged 78 years old.

Ismay was stationed in Burco from 1914 to a1920 he has over 800 pages of first hand Dervish history all kept in london's king collage.

some person posted this article in somali websites today, this particular quote on haji sudi by Malcolm McNeill , who commanded the Somali
Field Force against the mullah, is very interesting, I am not sure if any one posted here before. he said

Haji Sudi, was in reality my old
headman, Ahamed Warsama, who had been with
me during my trip in 1895. The very day I arrived
in Aden in 1901 I heard that he had gone over to
the Mullah, and on arriving in Berbera I made
many inquiries as to the truth of this report, and
found out that it was undoubtedly the case.the
Mullah got as an adherent a man whose
experience of the world, and of the British Sahib
and his ways, was of the greatest use to him,
Haji Sudi having been headman to various
expeditions, and having also spent some time as
interpreter on an English man-of-war. In addition
to Somali he could speak English, Hindustani,
Arabic, and Swahili, so he was not a man whose
services could be lightly dispensed with. It has
often made me think with regret of the many
times I could have blown this rascal’s head off
in 1895 if I had only known! At the same time he
might have done the same to me, if he had only
known what the future was to be.

In Pursuit of the Mad Mullah

http://www.burcoonline.com/articles/278 ... -INgriiska

@ theyuusuf

I read an article written by the same guy " Suleyman Yusuf Dhakhtar" while ago.

Check out the article.

http://burcoonline.com/articles/27181/B ... ish-Part-1

yeah his articles seems well referenced. good man. we need more people like honourable xplaya who always backs his claims with references. to be honest, xplaya changed my whole academic experience. I learned a lot of research technique from him. I have seen a lot of his work outside somalinet. thank you xplaya we are proud of you. you have my respect and I will buy your book !

Here is an article written by the same guy, Suleyman Yusuf Dhakhtar, about Mad Mullah's wives.

http://burcoonline.com/articles/36930/H ... lle-Xassan

The author is trying to make it sounds like Mad Mullah was married to only 14 wives over 20 years, from 1899 - 1919. He is trying to send us wrong messages that the Mad Mullah might have been married to 4 wives or less at the same time.

You don't need to be an expert in Dervish movement to refute his article. Below is the list of his sons and their mothers. I'll only focus in those who with he had son and ignore the rest. I'll assume that the date of marriage is a year before the first son was born and the date of divorce was the year his wife gave birth to her last son.

1- Barni Hersi 1900 - 1913

Mahdi (Born in 1901)
Abdul Karim (Born 1907)
Abdul Main (Born 1913)

2- Ina Osman Shiekh 1901 - 1913

Abdul Rahman "Jahid" (Born in 1902)
Abdul Razak (Born in 1906)
Abdul Salam (Born in 1909)
Abdul Hafid (Born in 1913)

3- Ina Mallo 1909 - 1918

Abdul Hamid (Born in 1910)
Abdul Samad (Born in 1912)
Abdullah (Born in 1918)

4- Ina Dhore 1901 - 1915

Abdul Aziz (Born in 1902)
Abdul Majid (Born in 1905)
Abdul Khaliq (Born in 1913)
Abdul Hakim (Born in 1915)

5- Barni Mahmoud Suguleh 1908 - 1909

Abdul Nasir (Born in 1909)

6- Ina Ali Shire 1911-1918

Abdul Rahim (Born in 1912)
Abdul Raof (Born in 1918)

7- Ina Yusuf Haili 1916 - 1917

Abdul Bare (Born in 1917)

8- Ina Hussein 1916-1917

Abdul Nafe (Born in 1917)

---------------------------------------

It is obvious that in 1909 he had 5 wives. And from 1911-1913 he was married to 5 wives.

As far as I know the Mad Mullah asked Ducaale Caadle for his beautiful daughter's hand a year before aerial bombardment but Dualeh Adle procrastinated. Eventually, she was given to Saxardiid, Somaliland new Minister of Avaiation Mr. Osman Abdullah Sahardid grandfather, not to the Mad Mullah. Never heard of Ibrahim Buqul's sister being one of Mad Mullah's wives.

Time for Xplaya to write an article to refute Suleyman Yusuf Dhakhtar's one.

A keen observation, I am familiar with Ismays numerous intelligence papers on the dervish, some of his papers are now been released by King's college on line for the last few month .

Its obvious that Ismay recorded as much information as he could get from the dervish deserters, that doesn't mean the list of the mullah's wives are complete. Yusuf cismaan keenadid in his 1984 book " Ina cabdulle Xasan " recorded around 41 women excluding the tow Aden Madoobe wives, that list was used by Mr Oromo in his book Tiirka Colaada.

Chronology is in essense here, if one is certain of the time of the marriage and the last son's birth, then one can make the argument of the mullah having concubines. The first 6 at least are very suspicious.

Another observation , Barni Maxamud Sugulle, the sister of Faarax Dacay, if her marriage lasted till 1909 when the Canjeel incident caused the death of her father who was executed by the mullah along her, then logically one might argue that the mullah married INA Mallo at that same year which might reduce his wives to 5 . its all about the dates of the marriage and the birth of the children, the long gabs in between the birth of sons might be explained by birth of omitted daughters. How sure you are of these dates?

The author of this article could be the owner of the site, Liqaaye the Aden Madoobe lad that use to frequent this site. When did he turn a defender of Kacaanist I am baffled.

Regarding Ducaale Caadle daughter and Ibrahim Buquls sister, they are both included in ismays table, among the wives that bore him no children. Whether the marriage was aborted for other reasons or delayed no one knows, but is may was a meticulous intelligence officer we have no reason to question the veracity of his information.

X.Playa wrote:A keen observation, I am familiar with Ismays numerous intelligence papers on the dervish, some of his papers are now been released by King's college on line for the last few month .

Its obvious that Ismay recorded as much information as he could get from the dervish deserters, that doesn't mean the list of the mullah's wives are complete. Yusuf cismaan keenadid in his 1984 book " Ina cabdulle Xasan " recorded around 41 women excluding the tow Aden Madoobe wives, that list was used by Mr Oromo in his book Tiirka Colaada.

Chronology is in essense here, if one is certain of the time of the marriage and the last son's birth, then one can make the argument of the mullah having concubines. The first 6 at least are very suspicious.

Another observation , Barni Maxamud Sugulle, the sister of Faarax Dacay, if her marriage lasted till 1909 when the Canjeel incident caused the death of her father who was executed by the mullah along her, then logically one might argue that the mullah married INA Mallo at that same year which might reduce his wives to 5 . its all about the dates of the marriage and the birth of the children, the long gabs in between the birth of sons might be explained by birth of omitted daughters. How sure you are of these dates?

The author of this article could be the owner of the site, Liqaaye the Aden Madoobe lad that use to frequent this site. When did he turn a defender of Kacaanist I am baffled.

Regarding Ducaale Caadle daughter and Ibrahim Buquls sister, they are both included in ismays table, among the wives that bore him no children. Whether the marriage was aborted for other reasons or delayed no one knows, but is may was a meticulous intelligence officer we have no reason to question the veracity of his information.

Faarax Dacay!! Is not he Koosa Faare's dad? How did I miss that she was Koosa Faare's aunt. The Mad Mullah waged a war on Sultan Mahmoud Ali Shire yet he kept Sultan Mahmoud's sister as a wife. So there is a big chance the Mad Mullah didn't execute her and kept her as he did with In Ali Shire. But I'm pretty sure that her father was slaughtered and also Koosa Faare dad was executed by the Mad Mullah.

As for the number of the Mad Mullah's wives still it was more than 4 which is forbidden in Islam. He also had more than 4 wives from 1911-1913. His lovely wife who was forced to marry Oromo, Naado, was not included in that list. Ali Jama Haabil composed a poem about the Mad Mullah having more than 4 wives, waa tuu laha:

Toddobuu qabaa naaga xora, tuu falaa darane
Kun towxiidsanaayuu sidii, Teys u gawracaye
Taag niman lahayn iyo agoon, buu ka taajiraye
Safar waa la taakulin jiree lama tayiiseyne
Isna turuqyaduunbuu jaraa timirta cuurtaaye

Marki tuu 8aad Gursaday uu Maxamed Maxamud " Salaan Carrabay " yidhi :

Fircoonbaa cilmiga sheegi jirey, sheekhna ma ahayne
Naagaha siddeed baw sharciya, shayna weheshaaye

So either Ali Jama Haabil and Salaan Carrabay were lying or Ismay's information was not veritable.

As I told you Sahardiid, Wasir Osman Abdullah Sahardiid "Cadaani" grandfather, married Ina Duale Adle. You can confirm with anyone from Sahardiid family. According to both Reer Ducaale Caadle and Reer Saxardiid, Ina Ducaale Cadle way oo doonanayd Ina Cabdulla Xasan laakin lamo aqal galin.

The author of this article is not Liqaaye. There are many men nicknamed Dhakhtar such as Adan Dhakhtar, Mrs. Edna's dad. Most likely he is the son of Yusuf Dhakhtar, Liqaaye's uncle.

Xplaya any information about Canjeel battle? You rarely discuss it.

Canjeel incident was as result of sheikh maxamed saalax Al Rashids letter. When cabdilaahi shixiri, sheekh Isxaaq ismaaciil and sheekh maxamed nuur brought the letter to ilig , the letter was read in public and few days later a group of dervish and mullah's like sheikh cabdilaahi qoriyo and khusuusis such as maxamed Sugulle , axmed fiqi and others decided to side with maxamed saalax and defect. The news reached the rest of the dervish and a battle took place, 400 defected and arrived in burco march 1909. These included faarax dacay, Cali Osman sheikh, the Dhoore brothers cumar and war same. The defectors were pursued by a dervish army led by xaaji sudi, some were captured and am assuming maxamed Sugulle was among the captured. He was executed and qaadi qoriyo was exiled and axmed fiqi fled to his Hawiye clan.

Were not the dissidents army led by Dirie Caraaleh?

Was not Dirie Guray among the dissidents?

Were Haji Abdullah Shehiri's children excuted before the defection or afterward?

No according to the Dhoore brothers interview by Slatin Pasha in Burco March/May 1909 ,Diiriye Caraale died of a " Brocken heart" as they put it. What happened was in 1907 Caraale defected with Shixiri to Aden Yemen. He remained there for a year , finally despite the danger he went back to Ilig for the sake of his wife and children. Upon arrival he was detained by the dervish and imprisoned ,his wife and children were flogged and I'll treated, within weeks he died , the Dhoore brothers testified that they were present at his burial.

Another complicated infusion of oral history and some Italian archives confuse the end of Caraale with the end of Doolal Suldaan Diiriye. As you may have heard from some isaaq oral historian's, namely sheekh Dirir and the composer Axmed Aw Geedi, that suldaan Nuur was imprisoned in a stone cell in illig and was starved to death. Now of course you and I know that Nuur Dheere died naturally and was buried in Taleex.

We can also discount that story, due to the fact that after Nuur died naturally according to the author and military doctor Brockmen in his book British Somaliland, he reported that after Nuur's death the dervish proclaimed his son Dolaal as the new sultan. He wrote his book between the period 1905 and 1911, so in between these years nuur Dheere died.

There is always some truth to oral stories albeit inaccurate, my assumption was these guys confused Nuur and Doolaal and they maybe describing the demise of Doolaal. Then comes the Italian version and archives and according to a recent Italian book about the dervish the story of life burial and starvation to death is mentioned and this time its Deriye Caraale not Doolaal the victim. There might be some truth to it the Italian were familiar with Caraale and he was among those who signed the ilig treaty with them.

Regarding Shixri's sons , in his interview in1909 with Sir Wingate, Shixiri emotionally recounted what his eldest son said upon hearing his defection, his eldest son said "upon the capture of my father, save him for me for I will kill him with my own hands". Somehow this interview made it to the dervish camp and the mullah retorted:

Ashtakoota ama gaal u andacootaaba
Arki maysid ina shixirow inamadaadiye.

His sons were never killed just somalis misinterperted the poem. Diiriye Guure , xaaji jaamac yusuf Taminlaahi, Xirsi Axmed Amaan ( brother of Nuur, in volume II Official History Of the Operation In Somaliland, reported the sons of Xirsi fled to boqor cismaan after the capture of ilig fort, they were interviewed there by the Italians or the Brits) those, and ina Shixri's sons end is lost to history.

Dirie Arrale, that's how the Italian write it. This is the link of the book.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=i5Uz5u ... omCh2oWwCl

Its painful task, first you can't copy the text, you have to type it then use Google translate. Check page 198 .

dear OP (Xplaya)

Would you please care to compile a list of colonial books to read about Somaliland, Isaaqs, old days 1800 - 1950