Somalia should embrace communism

[gurey25]

@ Globetrotter,

I think you will find that Joseph Schumpeter was closer to the mark when he wrote that what we have at present is "a system in which the deciding of issues by the electorate is secondary to the election of the men who ought to do the deciding". Whatever this may be called, it's ten miles removed from the will of the people.

But I'm not so sure that direct democracy is a good thing. I believe in the strongman theory of politics. Every progressive measure in society, Eastern or Western, has been introduced against the howling objections of the majority, be it the abolition of capital punishment, the emancipation of the gentle sex, the decriminalisation of homosexuality, the introduction of lesbian porn. The masses are invariably ten years behind visionaries who, gifted with the ability to conjure the future, have the backbone to push through political reforms that posterity regards as elementary common sense.

Sez me: The Horn cries out for a strongman versed in the Enlightenment. How about you?

by god thats an interesting observation..

true too..

The masses have always been reactionary, ignorant and easily led.

[globetrotter2]

Dear Gurey,

The issue is not private vs public. It is about how to bring to life somalis(a) which has been dead for decades. We should find a uniting force to kickstart this process. Qabilism should be fought by another ideology; the only ideology which many somalis relate to is communism.

The notion of interest rates and usery needs a thread of its own. I can share with you my observations and critical essays.

[WiglessBidaar]

@ Gurey

LOL@ Camel rustling. Move cautiously. The humped mammal is not to be slagged off because I bought my wife with two dozen.

On politics, I think democracy is bricked on a layer upon layer of imbecilities out of which one could build a coliseum. Majoritarian politics is the notion, defeated by every flicker of common sense, that a Plato is no more competent to decide questions of state than ten zoo keepers. It banks unwisely on the superior wisdom of crowds. No ambitious politician ever appealed to the higher discerning faculties of the people. He appeals to their deepest fears, he conjures up demons in pressing need of scotching, he promises to bring in the New Jerusalem. In short it's a messianic art. It's a truism of politics that to be elected to public office a man must first submit to have his spine surgically removed.

Every schoolboy of ten knows for instance that the war on drugs is merely a government guaranteed margin of profit for organised crime. Decriminalisation is every drug pusher's nightmare. If a man can purchase his stash of cannabis from the drug store in the secure knowledge that his joint is cheap and safe, the drug cartels are out of business, the turf wars are over, and the government can redirect the tax revenue so generated to treatment clinics. This Portugal has done. And the result has been a sharp fall in drug consumption.

But let a politician advance such a level-headed policy and he will be sent to heaven. Why? The seething masses. If a man ever addresses himself to reason then he quickly finds himself out of a job. Politics, like every other sport of the human drama, is the game of the man who knows the taste of boot polish. I am not a democrat. To hell with it and bad luck to it!

[bareento]

Gurey, are u rejecting any private initiative?
The accumultion of capital is necessary step if u want to make heavy investment.
The bank system helps to drain money from individuals and then to make investment.

B.

barentoo my friend, au contrair
I am advocating the opposite, i want more private inniative more capitalists less capitalists.
I am an enemy of monopolies of all forms, especially the provision of capital.
The function of the banks should be given to another body, the nature of provision of capital should also change

Its the nature of this body that is myterious!
U do recognize banks have a major role in the economy, u point out their shortcomings and propose to replace them by another body!
I follow u! but wat will be the nature of this body? do u imply state intervention.
To invest u have to accumulate wealth or borrow...if u discard banks ...how can u secure enough wealth to make heavy investment?

B.

[gurey25]

Comrade Bareentoo..
You are right to be suspicious about the possibility of such a body, because alternatives to the current banking system do not get allot of coverage.
This may have to do with the banks having 100% control over the media that would likely be covering this in the fist place.


Ok lets start..
The Financial system is a system a vast intricate system with many "bodies" and ofcourse Interest is a fundemental aspect of this, due to fractional reserve banking and the currencies generated from this.
We will have to replace it with another system.

As you know in today's developed ecenomies banks have the monopoly of money creation, and they d this every time they provide a loan to a business or a person,
every time this is done, they will create this amount out of thin air, and expect you to pay back the full amount plus interest..
The interest you will have to go out to the world, compete and get it..

In the past in many cultures around the world namly Pharoinic egypt, and throughout most of China, Korea and Japans history money was created corresponding to actual goods created usually by the governing body.
Confusius thought of merchants as the lowest of the low but he tolerated them as a necessity, in his order of the world farmers , artisans, soldiers and administrators where on top and merchants were at the bottom of the social scale just above slaves, this was extreme but whats interesting was his attitude to money lenders , he proposed the death penalty and their extermination like rats.

But thats an extreme view, in islam trade is highly thought of and our own prophet and most of the saxaaba were merchants...

State control over the creation of money is not what i propose even though the state should have some say in the long term planning and direction of the economy, money creation and management of supply should be in the hands of non-state actors but not banks.

A good example of this is Abraham lincoln during the Civil war...
In those days upto WW1 the worlds finances were controlled by London, because the British Empire had controll over the world gold market and the international gold standard.
Lincoln was having trouble financing the war and the gold standard constrained him, also the british were against the existance of a strong US that was out of their financial control and they supported the confederacy.
The war led to a shortage of currency through out the Union and thus led to deflation and a severe economic slump, while the Union government was goung heavily into debt and was nearly bankrupt and would not have been able to continue the war..
What did Lincoln do? he discarded the god standard told the british to fuck off, and started issuing government gaurenteed currency called the GreenBack Dollar.
This quickly took the country out of the slump and allowed the financing of the war and eventually victory.
Lincoln did not just print money and dump it, he also invested in massive infrasture projects like irrigation cananls, railways and also the granting of state lands and funds for the creation of dozens of state agricultural and engineering colleges.
These became the various state universities that you have today, thanks to honest Abe,
Coincidently when Lincon came to power there was another rising power that was starting to rebel against the power the financiars i.e the London, this was Czar Alexander the second of russia.
He started the modernization of russia in 1861 the same year as the start of the US civil war, and he and Lincoln became allies against the British financial control of their own countries and they both took identical
steps..
They both went off the gold standard albiet temporarily, and they both started massive economic reforms and the emancipation of slaves, in russias case the serfs that made up 90% of the population.
The results of their actions were clear to see, in 1861 both Russia and the US were second tier powers and France and the British were first tier powers and were more modern.
In 1861 Russia was less developed economically than the Ottomans, and even though 1878 was a fluke victory, the comparison between the unlucky but vastly more modern Ottoman army and the extremely primitive but well led Russian army was clear to see.

By 1900 both countries were on their way to bieng superpowers and the US unleashed the second industrial revolution in the electrical and the chemical industries in Germany.

Let me reiterate
State control over the creation of money is not what i propose even though the state should have some say in the long term planning and direction of the economy, money creation and management of supply should be in the hands of non-state actors but not banks.

You must be asking are there alternatives to the state, yes..
but before we address this let me explain that the formation of our current dominant business organizations.. The Corporation is due to the very system that we are trying to replace, so we must also replace the Corporation if we want to replace the current financial system.

You have seen how todays large corportations have bloated to enormous size, they have become less efficient, stifiling of innovation and in the case of US corportations e.g General motors , Ford and Chrysler
they have also failed to survive on their own without government intervention even though they had all the advantages given to them.
We have an unhealthy relationship between the corporations the financiers and governments and it is difficult today to determine where one ends , they are one and the same.
Politics has become a show for the masses and decisions are rarely influenced by elections or the "will of the people, or their interest".

The alternative is the cooperative .
Small and Medium enterprises make up most of the worlds economy and employ the vast majority of the working population, and cooperatives that bring them together can do every thing a corporation can do and do it better.

and these can also control their own credit and thus their own currencies..

The best examples are Spain's Mondragon Corporation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

The thousands of small and medium enterprises in the Emillia romagna

http://www.community-wealth.org/_pdfs/a ... -logue.pdf

Both models do all the activities of corporations and do it more efficiently.
Both models control their own banks, their own insurance , the entire range of financial products that are provided by the banks.

Another example is the WIR bank
this was the sole survivor of the friewirschaft(free economy) movement of the 1930's that was inspired by Silvio Gesell.
Today it is still running strong.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Ca ... id=7613810
for more information read this, you may have to get it from your library or buy it
http://www.reinventingmoney.com/documents/wir.html

These are historical examples they are relevant but for under developed countries we will require something similiar but more suitable
http://www.lietaer.com/2010/05/bancodipalma/

[gurey25]

there is a limit of 5 urls linked per post in this article, so
you should feel free to google away..

[gurey25]

@ Gurey

LOL@ Camel rustling. Move cautiously. The humped mammal is not to be slagged off because I bought my wife with two dozen.

On politics, I think democracy is bricked on a layer upon layer of imbecilities out of which one could build a coliseum. Majoritarian politics is the notion, defeated by every flicker of common sense, that a Plato is no more competent to decide questions of state than ten zoo keepers. It banks unwisely on the superior wisdom of crowds. No ambitious politician ever appealed to the higher discerning faculties of the people. He appeals to their deepest fears, he conjures up demons in pressing need of scotching, he promises to bring in the New Jerusalem. In short it's a messianic art. It's a truism of politics that to be elected to public office a man must first submit to have his spine surgically removed.

Every schoolboy of ten knows for instance that the war on drugs is merely a government guaranteed margin of profit for organised crime. Decriminalisation is every drug pusher's nightmare. If a man can purchase his stash of cannabis from the drug store in the secure knowledge that his joint is cheap and safe, the drug cartels are out of business, the turf wars are over, and the government can redirect the tax revenue so generated to treatment clinics. This Portugal has done. And the result has been a sharp fall in drug consumption.

But let a politician advance such a level-headed policy and he will be sent to heaven. Why? The seething masses. If a man ever addresses himself to reason then he quickly finds himself out of a job. Politics, like every other sport of the human drama, is the game of the man who knows the taste of boot polish. I am not a democrat. To hell with it and bad luck to it!

Ah you share my views on this subject, ill go further and annoy my religous friends on this forum and propose the legalization and regulation of Prostitution.
Nobody has been able to stop this oldest of professions, even though they have tried.
The more draconian the attempts have been have had the unusual affect of promoting the very thing they were attempting to eliminate.
The best example is Iran under the Mullahcracy , Iran under the Shah was western, the alcohol flowed freely (its the land of the khamriyaat after all, of Omar Khayam and of Firdousi)
The women wore the latest outfits with the mini skirt popular.
surprisingly prostitution was not as common as today, and prostitutes were looked down on and stigmatized by the iranian conservative culture.

after the revolution there was another revolution, brought about by the chador and the condom .
along with the hardship of revolutionary Iran, this has propelled hundreds and thousands of women into prostitution without fear of stigmatization because of the anonymity provided by the chador and the saftey provided by the condom.

Iran today is one huge whorefarm, and if you know how to be discrete you would end up in a smorgasboard of delight.

If you were a punter.

if.

We have more pressing problems in somalia, QAT.

this vile weed threatens our very lives,, i suggest we use altogether different means of elimination.
If this was heroin and i was a dictator i would put all addicts in concentration camps .. oops i meant rehabilitation camps surrounded by barbed wire and ditches in the middle of nowhere and gaurded by gaurddogs and technicals. No demand , no supply

sadly qat is more accepted and is considered normal..

the best course is to attack supply..
the war against drugs has shown that you cannot fight supply, half heartedly, if the US was serious about attacking supply they would have invaded mexico..
The only recourse would be to attack the qat plant it self.

We need to collect the pests native to the plant and breed them so they become more potent, even go as far as genetic engineering but this is dangerous..

[globetrotter2]

Gurey25 LOL qat.

Qat, alcohol and drugs are the least thing we should think of.

Tribalism is what is killing our society.

Religions want to control human lust; ban sex, qat, alcohol and drugs.

[Saraxnow]

Ah you share my views on this subject, ill go further and annoy my religous friends on this forum and propose the legalization and regulation of Prostitution.
Nobody has been able to stop this oldest of professions, even though they have tried.
The more draconian the attempts have been have had the unusual affect of promoting the very thing they were attempting to eliminate.
The best example is Iran under the Mullahcracy , Iran under the Shah was western, the alcohol flowed freely (its the land of the khamriyaat after all, of Omar Khayam and of Firdousi)
The women wore the latest outfits with the mini skirt popular.
surprisingly prostitution was not as common as today, and prostitutes were looked down on and stigmatized by the iranian conservative culture.

after the revolution there was another revolution, brought about by the chador and the condom .
along with the hardship of revolutionary Iran, this has propelled hundreds and thousands of women into prostitution without fear of stigmatization because of the anonymity provided by the chador and the saftey provided by the condom.

Iran today is one huge whorefarm, and if you know how to be discrete you would end up in a smorgasboard of delight.

If you were a punter.

if.

We have more pressing problems in somalia, QAT.

this vile weed threatens our very lives,, i suggest we use altogether different means of elimination.
If this was heroin and i was a dictator i would put all addicts in concentration camps .. oops i meant rehabilitation camps surrounded by barbed wire and ditches in the middle of nowhere and gaurded by gaurddogs and technicals. No demand , no supply

sadly qat is more accepted and is considered normal..

the best course is to attack supply..
the war against drugs has shown that you cannot fight supply, half heartedly, if the US was serious about attacking supply they would have invaded mexico..
The only recourse would be to attack the qat plant it self.

We need to collect the pests native to the plant and breed them so they become more potent, even go as far as genetic engineering but this is dangerous..

[/quote]


Gurey25, walle I thought you were smarter than that. Don't be offended. It should not be about pleasing your religious friends but it should be about principles.


Furthermore, the example you used in referring to Iran is very bad.Not to mention that the chador did not cause a 'promiscuous revolution'. Iran as you know is a state that follows the Ithnaa 'Ashariyya Shia sect more commonly known as the Rafidhiya sect. One of the well-known basic concepts or Fiqh in this sect is what is known Muta' or ''Temporary Marriage''. A female is allowed whether married or single to have sexual relations with a stranger without the consent of anyone . Simply you go with her to a 'Mullah' and decide :

1) How long you want her to provide her services to you..1 hour 3 days etc?

2) More importantly how much money does she want for her services?

This is clearly prostitution.

It is allowed by these Mullahs for a woman to WORK and use this as an INCOME for her livelihood needs. Not to mention that these Mullahs can also engage in this affair as well. It is another important belief in this sect that Muta' is a holy affair, Mullahs have beautified it and claimed that a woman who does this is going to get GREAT REWARDS from God. You would see in they holy cities Mullahs roaming around looking for a catch with a paper in hand.This something that obviously any Muslim or person with human dignity would find absolutely absurd.

Instead of promoting and legalizing prostitution why don't you look to cure the root cause as to why women take up this inhumane and undignified profession.

You need to treat the causes instead of giving up and hopelessly 'juggling with the results' of vulnerable women, so to speak.There can be many but they mainly come from too illnesses:

1) Poverty

2) Broken families.homes : the back-bone of every society.

Therefore, I would advise that instead of unethically taking advantage of the weak amongst us and allowing for them what we would not allow for ourselves or our mothers/sisters, we should cure the causes of this disease and not encourage its spread.

[gurey25]

saxarow i am very familiar with this subject, andi have friends and aquaintancies that work and live in iran and make use of this facility

I have also met and spoken to women engaged in this,( to satisfy my curiosity i assure you, i am fascinated by sociology and the human condition)

No my friend i was not referring to zawaj mutcah , or Sigeh as the Iranians call it..
I was referring to your everyday standing on the street corner, variety as well the call girl and brothel variety.

This has skyrocketed in Iran after the revolution, the chador hasnt cused it, its the hardship and economic conditions..

but the chador and condom facilitates it, makes it easier to do..
A women can have a day job that doesnt pay very well, she can be a good standing wife or daughter providing for her family, but the anonymity of the chador and saftey of the condom
has created an explosion of moonlighters..

i am not lying..
where before during the time of the shah they were confined to a red light district , today there is no red light district
it is everywhere in greater volume and variety and quality..

Visit Teheran for a 2 days and you will see.

[WiglessBidaar]

@Gurey

Steady now, prossies are haram brother. I will report you.

Cc: FBI, CIA, Mossad.

You seem to be an authority on women of ill-fame. I wonder how you came by this knowledge. Were you sold into sexual bondage? I share your sentiment though. In a former life before time was invented or any man knew what it might be good for my kinsmen were Xamar's brothel keepers. We trafficked Majeerteen booty. But I think it's vital not to merchandise your own clanswomen. You can no more ban the procreational impulse than you can ban hunger. When the red mist of lust descends, off a man runs to quench the promptings of the flesh by illicit means.

The problem is compounded by the regimented social code of Absurdistan where the fairer sex are vaulted away from the admiration of the gender with the dangling sixth finger. To keep Adam and Eve forcibly apart is to encourage a flowering of sodomites. Like my nephew Grandpakhalif who spends all his time in the company of men. The gay scene in Eye-ran is no less impressive than the rear-mounters of New York. The only difference being that one is marked by skintight pants and the other by concealing burqas. But the fact remains that somebody will get mounted like a bison. Nature made woman to be loved by men. To separate them is to ask for khanisnimo.

To ban is not to abolish.

Anecdote: I was staying once at a Kenyan Hotel in East Leigh, the Somali enclave. My uncle was staying on the floor below mine. I dropped by one evening without prior notice and found that he took longer, much longer to answer than usual. When the door finally opened, out rushed a strange woman garbed in a veil with nary a word to me, a woman who was neither related to him nor a friend of the family. A complete stranger alone with him in his hotel bedroom. I wonder what they were doing.

[Saraxnow]

Gurey25 LOL qat.

Qat, alcohol and drugs are the least thing we should think of.

Because at the moment Somalia is in a state of anarchy. I agree.

Religions want to control human lust; ban sex, qat, alcohol and drugs.

But do you not agree that Qat, Alcohol and drugs should be controlled? Not to mention that you have said that Dictatorship is a good thing, so control is good no?

If you mean religions want to control human lust, ban sex, qat and drugs/alcohol I would : Agree and Disagree with that statement.

Agree that religions like Christianity or the largest denomination, Catholicism, has issues and problems with sex. Hence, celibacy is encouraged (this has effects on Catholic Priest/Clergymen falling into sexually-related crimes) .So,there is a constant conflict between the body and the soul, between the mundane and the spiritual.

Whereas marriage in Islam is recommended for the youth as soon as they are ready ,for it is accepted that sex is not a taboo but something to be enjoyed as gift from God in a married relationship.You can be pious and love God but that at the same time enjoy food, wealth , children and your spouse, all of which are simply gifts. Therefore saying I disagree with 'religions want to ban sex or lust'.

As for alcohol and drugs: anything that harms the body and has ill effects as well society is, according to Islam,wrong. This is where I derive my moral-basis and ethics from, as a curiosity where does yours come from?



As for Tribalism, its cure is not in Communism at all. Communism was borne in a Western capitalist society where there were inequality between the classes. I humbly repeat my question, explain why should this materialist ideology having roots in an completely different society be embraced by a society such as the Somali one apart from the ''once successful period in Somali history'' line-of thinking. Thankyou.

[gurey25]

lets just say that i used to enjoy the hunt the chase more than the actual deed.
paying for it woud be defeating the purpose..

and by the way please refrain from qabiilist obscenities....

my knowledge of the subject comes from being a good listener and observer , i am more of a journalist in a warzone, taking in all the little tidbits around me.
and i have been in allot of warzones f you know what i mean..

from dubais golden triangle, to the beer bars of patong, makati and quezon city, block M ,shinjuku, agadir to name a few..

but lets change the subject..

to something less sordid shall we..

[globetrotter2]

Religions want to control human lust; ban sex, qat, alcohol and drugs.

[/quote][/quote]


But do you not agree that Qat, Alcohol and drugs should be controlled? Not to mention that you have said that Dictatorship is a good thing, so control is good no?

If you mean religions want to control human lust, ban sex, qat and drugs/alcohol I would : Agree and Disagree with that statement.

Agree that religions like Christianity or the largest denomination, Catholicism, has issues and problems with sex. Hence, celibacy is encouraged (this has effects on Catholic Priest/Clergymen falling into sexually-related crimes) .So,there is a constant conflict between the body and the soul, between the mundane and the spiritual.

Whereas marriage in Islam is recommended for the youth as soon as they are ready ,for it is accepted that sex is not a taboo but something to be enjoyed as gift from God in a married relationship.You can be pious and love God but that at the same time enjoy food, wealth , children and your spouse, all of which are simply gifts. Therefore saying I disagree with 'religions want to ban sex or lust'.

As for alcohol and drugs: anything that harms the body and has ill effects as well society is, according to Islam,wrong. This is where I derive my moral-basis and ethics from, as a curiosity where does yours come from?



As for Tribalism, its cure is not in Communism at all. Communism was borne in a Western capitalist society where there were inequality between the classes. I humbly repeat my question, explain why should this materialist ideology having roots in an completely different society be embraced by a society such as the Somali one apart from the ''once successful period in Somali history'' line-of thinking. Thankyou.[/quote]


Saxarnow goog points;

I am against banning anything but I see no problem in reducing the spread of substance that have social/economic and health repurcassions. But, I am againg being a moral police.

As to communism; yes it was born out of western reaction to capitalism. But somalis have only learnt communism as the mode of governance and that might help. In addition, as I wrote earlier communism is the antedote to tribalism since it can be used to rally and mobilize masses.

[WiglessBidaar]

@ Gurey

Intriguing. I agree that clan based whoring is wrong. I think we should open up the trade to all qabils and none. Call it ecumenical love. I was not aware of Dubai's fleshpot. Evidence?

@ Saraxnow

The point is not that drugs are harmless, the point is that banning it causes more harm than good. And if you think all harmful things should be proscribed, do you want to ban cars too, for they kill thirty thousand people annually in just America alone. The number of road fatalities makes everything else pale into insignificance. There are more effective ways of limitng harms than by jailing people.

@ Globe

I agree with your prescription. As always.