Mohamed Siad Barre (Rest in Peace)

[kambuli]

Hiiraan boy,

I did not know that Adan Cabdulle Cusmaan died ...Allaah ha u naxariisto..Demigiisiina ha dhaafo..Janadana haku abaalmariyo...Aamiin Aamiin

[AbdiWahab252]

Sir Luugoyo,

If there was no coup in 1969, there would have been the continuation of democracy in Somalia. Every group would have had the opportunity to exercise their rights through the ballet box.

After 1969, there were NO election. Political parties were outlawed. Government opponents were jailed.

So Barre (AUN) estabilished a state where the only way to get change was by the barrel of the gun.

If there was no Barre as President, there would have been no Afbiijo, no Caydiid (AUN), no Ali Mahdi, no Omar Jess, no Abdirahman Tuur (AUN).

The worst legacy Barre left behind was this:

What a Somali president is to be like - Every man since him tried to become Siyaad Barre and his Marexan clan at all costs.

[fagash_killer]

siyaad barre was good nor bad however he lost a gold opportunity when he forced ogadens to go war against ethiopia he turned against the west and ofcourse evrybody will blaim siyaad barre for starting the cival thats why ppl see him as a bad leader but he wasnt but he made a big mistake for 1 using a coup. 2 going to war against ethiopia. 3 when his army was to weak sending them to a suicide mission to waqooyi galbeed.those 3 will he be remembered and thus his good sign ore what he has done for somalia will be forgotten what a lost opporunity for siyaad barre. i see it just like courts when they had somalia in their hands most of the somalis where ready to support them but when extremist like sheikh inda adde declared jihaad on ethiopia and send 1000ste of somalis to their grave than the lost the support they had although you cant compare siyaad barre with the courts siyaad barre had a target and he showed us this is who i am unlike the courts who were wolf in sheep's clothing.

[REPPIN_SHANKVILLE]

is it true he ripped the quran

[Grant]

He kicked the American programs out of the country in 1969 and cut off mail serv ice. I lost contact with my friends and was prevented from visiting.

Defiance without results is just empty defiance.

My feeling is that Afweyne earned what he got after 1977.

[Warsame101]

AbdiWahab, why are you so afraid to engage in a debate with me with regard to president M S Barre (RH) and Caydiid?

The Soviets and Cubans did not switch to Ethiopia after M S Barre expelled them, rather M S Barre expelled them after information reached him indicating they were trying to change their allegiance to Ethiopia.

After the intelligence reports reached him that they were aiding Ethiopia, he issued a decree ordering them to leave.

Secondly, Somalia from its inception 1960 was never pro-American but in fact worked closely with the Soviets.

From 1960 to 1969, the Soviets provided military and economic assistance to Somalia.

Thirdly, the 1969 revolution is something that is celebrated by all Somalis. Anyone who said that the 1969 was un-necessary is a complete moron who is ignorant of the 1960’s politics.


AbdiWahhab's lies:

//1. Seized power by force and ended the Somali democracy.//

Correction:

The revolution, staged by M S Barre, was welcomed by every Somali.

Source:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... Farahc.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... artman.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1369/60s1io3.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7094/60s3hv8.jpg


//2. Started Somalia's civil war//


Correction:

Somali’s civil war was initiated by ina Yusuf who attempted the first clan-based coup and created the first clan-based militia.

Caydiid with his Hawiye militia was responsible for the death of more than 500,000 Somalis and the destruction of Somalia in general.

//3. Lead Somalia into disasterous war with Ethiopia//

Correction:
Before M S Barre made the declaration of war, WSFL was heavily active in its military campaign against the Ethiopians supported by the Somali National Army. M S Barre excused thousands of SNA Soldiers who were Ogaadeens or had Ogadeen mothers or were sympathetic to the Ogaadeen cause to join the WSLF and fight the Ethiopians. This was considered a cover so that the SNA Army could military prepare itself for the war.

Once M S Barre made the announcement that Somalia would go to war, not did the Ogadeens fully supported the decision but the whole Somali population was behind. Up to 300,000 Somalis showed up during the big rally and the proclamation of the Ethiopian-Somalia war whilst the rest were enthusiastically following it on the television.

Somalis captured 90% of Ogaadeenia within months until the Cubans and Russians intervened.


//Economically sabotaged Somalia by nationalizing and tightening state control over the economy.//

Correction:

It was M S Barre who responsible for the modernization and nationalization of the Somali economy. M S Siad Barre provided priority to rapid economic and social development through "crash programs," Industry, banks and businesses were nationalised. Cooperative farms were promoted. Rehabilitation programs were created for drought victims.

[Nabeela]

Lug,

Nice thread, but a qabiil cuqdad ridden individual will ruin it.

Some folks are suffering from a severe clan sickness, and pitifully which has no cure, seriously as long as this tribal virus is still roaming through the minds and hearts of Somalis, then we are doomed.


P. S..It's better for some people to remain silent. cough FK cough.

[Warsame101]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]Sir Luugoyo,

If there was no coup in 1969, there would have been the continuation of democracy in Somalia. Every group would have had the opportunity to exercise their rights through the ballet box.

After 1969, there were NO election. Political parties were outlawed. Government opponents were jailed.

So Barre (AUN) estabilished a state where the only way to get change was by the barrel of the gun.

If there was no Barre as President, there would have been no Afbiijo, no Caydiid (AUN), no Ali Mahdi, no Omar Jess, no Abdirahman Tuur (AUN).

The worst legacy Barre left behind was this:

What a Somali president is to be like - Every man since him tried to become Siyaad Barre and his Marexan clan at all costs.[/quote]


AbdiWahhab, this is a revelant post that responds to your allegations:

Anyone who has done his research would conclude that the 60's government degenerated into anarchy. There was heavy corruption and a high level of tribalism based affairs. In the 1969 elections, there were over 1000 clan-based candidates and over 70 parties for fewer than 130 seats. The Somali population was simply tired of this power struggle, disunity and pseudo-democracy. Somalia, during that period, received the highest foreign aid per capita in comparison to other African states but there was practically little development projects to no visible improvement in the standard of living. The aid money went straight in to the pockets of the politicians. Most of the custom duties were pocketed by civil servants; hospitals were selling their medicines to local pharmacies; and government-owned cars were being used as taxis. There was no minimum basis for national cooperation and high decree of moral decay was prevalent. This is why M S Barre started a campaign exposing the thievery and mismanagement of the political leaders in the early months after the coup.

This is when Maxamed Siyaad Barre (RH) staged the revolution which was welcomed by every Somali.

Within three years, M S Barre achieved goals that took the previous government forever to decide on. He put in effect the choice of a script for the national language. Civil servants of up to 30,000 students were sent to the baaddiye to educate the nomads in literacy. Industry, banks and businesses were nationalised. Cooperative farms were promoted. Rehabilitation programs were created for drought victims. At least 30,000 students and teachers took part in the rescue-operation with the backing of $20 million. The SN Army was increased from 10,000 to 40,000. He banned foreigners from taking in posts that could be filled by Somalis. Rent was reduced, prices were frozen.

The 70's was marked as the best era of Somalia. Kids grew up with no single regard to their qabiil. Somalis displayed the "Somalia against the World" and "Somalia on the top of the World" attitudes.

This is manifested in the words of Abdi Sheikh Abdi:

Quote
"It can hardly be denied that Somalia under its present leadership has achieved some impressive results. This is most apparent to someone, like myself, who had been out of the country for many years. A good number of ambitious projects have been started, and in part completed, under the military Government, including the rehabilitation and resettling of nomads who had lost their flocks during the 1974-5 Deba-Dhere drought. These destitute former herdsmen have been settled in farming and fishing co-operatives between the two perennial rivers of south-western Somalia. Other projects include the north-south tarmac highway, built with Chinese technical help, which connects the two main regions of the Somali Republic and thus has both economic and political roles to play. Other projects undertaken by the Barre regime, though less successful, have instilled a co-operative spirit and a work-ethic that had been woefully lacking in the Somalia of the 1960s. The germ of this new spirit is most discernable in the numerous revolutionary youth centres that have been established in recent years. I recall having been very moved by one of the songs sun by orphan girls who had known no other home but such a centre, and no other parent but the state:

It is a time of pleasant suprises
When one journeys from a place of
drought and desolation
to one of plenty and prosperity

There was a time
When I did not know my lineage
Now I have a father in [President] Siad.
A mother in the October Revolution
The flag is my uncle,
The land my grandfather,
The soil my grandmother...
End Quote

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... khAbdi.jpg

M S Barre changed the "Whom do you know?" question in to the "What do you know?" which aimed at strengthening the sense of unity and non-tribal identification.
M S Barre would often mention his salary in his public speeches and publish letters from Western Banks who wanted to persuade him in opening private banks in case he was overthrown.

David Laitin documents the contrast of the 60s government between the 70s M S Barre government (see images)

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin1.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin2.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin3.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin4.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin5.jpg


Another point of unity was demonstrated when at least 300,000 showed up to hear M S Barre announce the Ethiopian war.

[Picture of M S Barre announcing the Ethiopian war in front of 300,000 people]
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... cesWar.jpg


It was when, ina Yusuf who was the first one to lead a clan-based coup and create the first clan-based militia, that things started deteriorating and M S Barre started getting suspicious and making grave mistakes which is unfortunate. I guess there is no such thing as a perfect leader.

Hate him or love him, ST and KK, but the 70's has been proven to be the best era of Somalia and the prime of his reign. Now would you share with us what the Mooryaans have achieved?

Sources:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... khAbdi.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... poulos.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin1.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin2.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin3.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin4.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... aitin5.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... Farahc.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... egimes.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... odward.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... artman.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1369/60s1io3.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5450/60s2rc2.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7094/60s3hv8.jpg

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9910/60s4wf4.jpg

[Sir-Luggoyo]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]Sir Luugoyo,

If there was no coup in 1969, there would have been the continuation of democracy in Somalia.


.[/quote]




So, in other words, he was the only intelligent person in all Somalia, only one who could set trends and no one can change the course of his "Legacy"? Is that what you are telling me? Why couldn't the so-called leaders venture other venues, pioneer and discover ways and means of restoring a government, a system that would bring anarchy to end? Should we keep on blaming him for the rest of our sorry lives? Pity

[AbdiWahab252]

Warsame101,

If Siyaad was so welcomed and loved for his 1969 revolution,

how come he never had free and fair elections ???

Why did he not allow Somali multiparty democracy ??

I doubt Siyaad would have won a free and fair election so he stuck to the throne that he seized by force and killed anyone who dared ask him to get off.


Luugoyo,

He is dead but his legacy is greater than any Somali President because he ruled longer than any other.

Every Somali leader wants to be just like Siyaad Barre and every qabiil wants to be Siyaad's Marexan.

Somalinimo was destroyed after the crushing of the Majeerten, the war on the Issaq and Hawiye.

[Ina Baxar]

Sir Luggoyo--> " I miss Siad Barre..."

Ahem , can anybody say Nabeela here!!

Seriously though , there's absolutely NO COMPARISON between Siad Barre and CY.

AW-->"He is dead but his legacy is greater than any Somali President because he ruled longer than any other."

Well let's compare his forst 2 years in power and what the TFG has accomplished in the same span.
What country in Africa had free and democratic elections in 1969?

[AbdiWahab252]

Ina Baxar,

U can't compare 1969-1971 to today's Somalia.

The TFG is a defunct, corrupt, entity not fit to be called a Somali government.

The issue here is Sir Luugoyo's post about Siyaad being the greatest Somali leader and saying how nationalist and patriotic he was.

If u want a great nationalist and patriotic dictator, please mention Field Marshall Tito of Yugoslavia. He held the nation together, kept the qabiils in peace and progressed his nation.

Folks all over the former Yugoslavia still admire him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito

[Warsame101]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]Warsame101,

If Siyaad was so welcomed and loved for his 1969 revolution,

how come he never had free and fair elections ???

Why did he not allow Somali multiparty democracy ??

I doubt Siyaad would have won a free and fair election so he stuck to the throne that he seized by force and killed anyone who dared ask him to get off.[/quote]

When the 1969 Revolution toke place, Somalis were fed up with the so-called parliamentary "democracy". This is why Somalis praised him for enforcing the step in demolishing this pseudo-democratic constitution. It simply didn't work and in fact just forced us to go backward in stead of forward. Hard measures had to be taken in order to reach a decision, whilst the 60's government were idily deciding on a Somali Script for over a decade, the population grew impatient about the lack of production and improvement in Somali's welfare.

If M S Barre re-installed this parliamentary government, corruption would occur again since most of Somalis were already hypnotized by the corruption of the 60's government and Somalis were not ready for that.

There was no sense of confidence in the national will, not even a minimum basis for national cooperation was established then how would a parliamentary system function without these pre-conditions?

Instead M S Barre declared a new state which has achieved many great thingss within a few years whilst the 60's government couldn't even decide on a simple request.

[Warsame101]

[quote="AbdiWahab252"
He is dead but his legacy is greater than any Somali President because he ruled longer than any other.
[/quote]

Let us make a comparision of the achievements of Somali's first President and Third President.


You tell me what former President Aadan Cabdulle Cismaan achieved in the first 5 years since taking office then I will provide the achievements of former President M S Barre (RH) in his first 5 years of taking over.

[Sir-Luggoyo]

Baxarow,

Subax wanaagsan horta.

Our friend A/Wahab is doing whatever it takes to cover the blunder his compatriots (The USC) committed and wants to blame everything on Siad Barre, how comical!!