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Voltage wrote:
Don't say that or greedy extreme capitalists like Padishah will have your head.

Each and everyone of us has some elements of greed, no one is free from it, well unless you are a lifeless body!

adeer dont worry about wealth distrubution blah blah as a isbaaro manager i can assure u will earn millions in a short period of time.
Mooryaan_4life

Navy9 wrote:

Voltage wrote:
Don't say that or greedy extreme capitalists like Padishah will have your head.

Each and everyone of us has some elements of greed, no one is free from it, well unless you are a lifeless body!

Ma saas baa?

Navy9 wrote:Again it depends on personal idealogies, what you see it as stupid another person might see it a ultimate justice! The governemt should not cater for only one group/class of its citizens but again with this world of scarcity, each and economic design has some trade off to make!

Personal ideologies are not involved here. This is cold, hard, economic fact. There is nothing just, nor economically advisable, about government seizure of property and its redistribution. That is a perversion of justice. What makes even less sense is entrusting government, which is fundamentally prone to mis-allocation and waste of scarce resources. Compare this to the Free Market, which has proven its ability to rationally and efficiently allocate resources to their best use.

Navy9 wrote:But again dont get me wrong, I am not favoring socialist economic systems indeed it has many pitfalls but again pure capitalism is nothing but the survival for the fittest design!

Firstly, I am not a capitalist. I find the current regime where the State taxes, regulates, licenses, unionises, subsidies and generally interferes in the market utterly repugnant, as it takes resources away from creating wealth, in order to satisfy these arbitrary governmental dictates. This is 'State Capitalism'. Requiring greater governmental intervention to 'fix' the 'pitfalls' of Capitalism that it creates by its previous interventions is silly.

Navy9 wrote:Nice but tell me who would employ those homeless people whom i see them daily in DC parks? Don't you think they need first a place to sleep, a meal to eat and a skill to learn before they are fit to be employed. Who will do all that if the government does not step in?

You should ask yourself what good the US Government does, when it already takes half your pay cheque in direct and indirect taxation and inflation. The US government takes close to a Trillion in yearly. It pours billions in American education, but standards slide, and more and more school leavers are functionally illiterate? What then of your ageing and collapsing infrastructure, which the Federal government spends billions of your tax dollars on? With this rank incompetence, you believe it necessary that it takes in more, regulates more, intervenes more and subsidises more?

Navy9 wrote:The wealth will only circulate in that special class where the poor will get poorer and rich richer unless there is some governmental intervention.

It is precisely because of Government Intervention that the Super Rich get richer, and everyone else gets poorer. Let me explain. Since 1913, when it was inaugurated, the Federal Reserve has had an Inflationary 'Monetary Policy'. Inflation acts as a tax on the Middle Class, because it steadily, over many years, reduces the value of savings, pushing everyone but the Super Rich into poverty. The Federal Reserve System was created by an Act of Congress.

What is worse is then the slew of government regulations, taxes, bailouts, subsides, welfare handouts, minimum wage laws and everything else under the sun to distort the market even more that just the Inflationary bubbles like the current Housing one your suffering through. In a Free Market system, the Middle Class is as broad as possible, with a small percentage of the poor, and a small percentage of the really rich. You only need to see American Society at the turn of the 20th Century to see the benefits of the Free Market. America was the freest, richest, healthiest, most educated country on the planet. The reason America is the most powerful nation today is because of its 200 years of capital accumulation.

Voltage wrote:Don't say that or greedy extreme capitalists like Padishah will have your head. Ever wondered why the Scandinavian countries have been declared the prime enemy by extreme capitalists?

Take your calacaal somewhere else.

As for the Scandinavian countries, how do you think they got industrialised so quickly? From the end of WWII until the 1970's, the Scandinavian countries kept their interference in the economy to the absolute minimum, and then they lost the plot. Now, 70% of their pay cheques go towards direct and indirect taxes. Their pathetically small growth rates attest to their poor economic position for industrialised countries.

Padishah wrote: calacaal

It's calaacal.

See the double vowel is after the "l" not before the "c".

You're welcome!

Thankyou.

No need.

Ever heard of Milton Friedman? He might just become your role model.

Gave you new ideas for your next read eh Pitsaleh?

Pfft! Milton Friedman can go shove it.

Ludwig von Mises all the way. Look up the Austrian School of Economics.

Voltage, the whole Pitsaleh thing is getting old.

Padishah wrote:As for the Scandinavian countries, how do you think they got industrialised so quickly? From the end of WWII until the 1970's, the Scandinavian countries kept their interference in the economy to the absolute minimum, and then they lost the plot. Now, 70% of their pay cheques go towards direct and indirect taxes. Their pathetically small growth rates attest to their poor economic position for industrialised countries.

Yet their people by all accounts are the healthiest, most satisfied, most care-free people in this world.

Waxaad ka hadlaysidba ma taqaanid, this is why I hate when retarded Somali kids go to school and are mishandled by instructors with missions. Kuwa philoshopy kasoo baxaya and will ask you what their teacher asked them today, "do you believe in God". What has this kid seen of extreme capitalism? What has this kid seen about a society without some form of welfare and minimum wage?

Yet he comes here and writes:

What is worse is then the slew of government regulations, taxes, bailouts, subsides, welfare handouts, minimum wage laws and everything else under the sun to distort the market

Mucjiso wallahi!

Maybe this kid needs to look at the examples of Chile, Poland, and Russia after extreme capitalists forced extreme capitalism. What markets regulated themselves? What markets bounced back?

None!

All were brought back after this crazy idea that had been in economic circulation since the 60's was discarded and Keynesianism was practiced again.

Wallahi in wakhti lagugu dhumi umaba arko, waayo all you are bring here is regurgitation by a crackhead professor who shoved extreme capitalism down your uninformed and innocent brain.

Voltage wrote:Yet their people by all accounts are the healthiest, most satisfied, most care-free people in this world.

Being told that over and over again by their governments, its no wonder that they truly believe to be so. After all, Americans believe their country to the best place to live on Earth. How accurate a representation of truth is this, Voltage?

Voltage wrote:Waxaad ka hadlaysidba ma taqaanid

Really? Do you have any objective way of measuring this but your Keynesian bullsh!t calaacal?

Voltage wrote:this is why I hate when retarded Somali kids go to school and are mishandled by instructors with missions. Kuwa philoshopy kasoo baxaya and will ask you what their teacher asked them today, "do you believe in God".

Actually, I'm a Science Major, specialising in Geology. Haven't spent a two minutes in the presence of a Philosophy professor, and have never asked such stupid questions in my life. I prefer to deal with economics as just that; the study of human action, and not econometricians drawing inaccurate conclusions from modelling statistical data.

Voltage wrote:What has this kid seen of extreme capitalism?

I see it everyday. I've seen how 'State Capitalism' plods along in developed countries that, at least, have plenty of capital stored from their saner days. I see how they take this stupid system that only consumes capital, and try to apply this nonsense to third world countries that have neither the monetary or human capital, and the requisite capital goods in order to survive its onslaught. Its plainly ridiculous.

There is no other proven method of rapidly industrialising and developing, apart from Free Markets. Hong Kong is the best example available of the most Free Market manner of developing, even though they had a 17% taxation rate, and Public Education.

Voltage wrote:What has this kid seen about a society without some form of welfare and minimum wage?

Hong

• Kong

buddy.

Voltage wrote:Maybe this kid needs to look at the examples of Chile, Poland, and Russia after extreme capitalists forced extreme capitalism. What markets regulated themselves? What markets bounced back?

I know the examples of Chile, Poland, and Russia. Chile was essentially Fascist, which is no reflection on the Free Market. Both Russia and Poland had their accumulated capital absolutely destroyed by Communism. Then, they had the Harvard trained Economists come and apply this high regulated, high taxation, high minimum wage economic policy, with their Inflationary Monetary Policies and their IMF loans wasted on Big Infrastructure projects ala Keynesianism, and you see the results. How this is the fault of the Free Market is anybody's guess, really.

Voltage wrote:None!

When there is no capital in the hands of the people, how do you expect the economy to bounce back? IMF loans to the State, which increases the State debt that requires high taxes to pay back, taxes on people that have no capital to begin with at all? That's 'State Capitalism' for you. Big Government Projects are the Holy Grail of Keynesianism and the 'Chicago School'.

Voltage wrote:All were brought back after this crazy idea that had been in economic circulation since the 60's was discarded and Keynesianism was practiced again.

What happened in Russia and Poland are the product of Keynesianism, as the IMF came out of the era that Keynesianism was in vogue. Most destructive institution ever created by man.

Voltage wrote:Wallahi in wakhti lagugu dhumi umaba arko, waayo all you are bring here is regurgitation by a crackhead professor who shoved extreme capitalism down your uninformed and innocent brain.

What's funny about the above statement is that Keynesianism has been abandoned by most of the developed world in favour of the 'Chicago School', which has the same ideological underpinnings, namely that Big Government Projects can kick start an economy, but pays some lip service to actual Free Market principles. It really shows whose mind is uninformed here, clinging to discredited economic mumbo jumbo, and I'm the one regurgitating crackhead professor nonsense?



Get with the times buddy.

Padishah wrote: Zulaika, explain how government can distribute anything rationally, whether is wealth or labour, when it is incapable of economic calculation?

i agree with you 100% on the lack of most governments in the world to deliver effective and sound economic solutions. especially in this era of global-capitalism that promotes unequal distribution of wealth. a free-market society is fueled by individualism and competition and allocates much of the wealth among the few who are financially fit. individual success and economic competition would be great if all members of society were availed with equal access to avenues of success...but this isn't the case, everything becomes commercial and available at a price, its all about survival of the financially-fit, albeit a stringent collective system of taxation still affects all, yet revenues generated from such taxation is misused in the form of state-welfare system that further marginalizes those it alleges to help..."feed a man a fish for a day"...per se.

and lets even start on the spoken, but hardly proven governmental mandates dealing with Poverty, hunger, homelessness, illiteracy, healthcare and environmental issues. its a bleak world out there.

Padishah wrote:
In a Free Market system, the Middle Class is as broad as possible, with a small percentage of the poor, and a small percentage of the really rich. You only need to see American Society at the turn of the 20th Century to see the benefits of the Free Market. America was the freest, richest, healthiest, most educated country on the planet. The reason America is the most powerful nation today is because of its 200 years of capital accumulation.

Do you know the difference between "Free Market" and "Market Economy"? Name a country which implements a "free market economic system" ?

Unfortunately, there is no country that currently adheres to a Free Market Economy, coupled with a Classical Liberal form of Government.

Post WWII, Germany went through an explosive period of growth after they de-Fascified their over regulated, over taxed economy with its belligerent labour Unions, restrictive labour legislation and high trade barriers. Same thing occurred in Sweden and Norway when they eliminated their own trade barriers, lowered taxes and de-regulated. Hong Kong began with utterly nothing, and with their benign British Colonial dictatorship, rapidly developed because of an absence of regulation, high taxation, no labour legislation at all, all without one direct government intervention in the economy.

Every country on this Earth has government intervention in their economy; its a manner of degree. You get countries like Hong Kong, which until its 1997 handover, that practised a hands off approach except for Education, to 'Social Democrat' economies like Australia, Canada or New Zealand, or US style Corporatism, or Right Wing Fascism in Latin America, Latin American 'Socialism' to full blown Communism like in North Korea.

'Free Market' literally means that, a situation where trade and business are unrestricted by immoral government force. This currently exists nowhere on Earth.

Now, 'Market Economy' is a misnomer, which gives the impression that an economy is run by the market, but there is a degree intervention and regulation by government. We currently have 'Market Economies' in places like Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, where governments do not intervene too much.

We have 'Capitalism' in countries like the US, Europe, Australia, Canada, and other places that can afford the destruction of capital that comes with such pervasive government interference.

Oh Padishah i am saddened that you have fallen for the neo-liberal bullshit,
but dont worry its a common mistake.

countries do not industrialize through "free markets", "free trade" and no state interferance.
Hong Kong is a bad example becuase it is unique and no other advanced economy developed like hong kong.

All of its nieghbouring tigers industrilzed through direct state intervention and planning.
Singapore's industrilization, Japans, Koreas and even Taiwans are all a result of state planning.

Most people dont realize this but its the same with scandinavia,
Sweden industrilization in the end of the 1870s, was a result of state planning as rigid as south Koreas and Singapores in the 1960's.

Finlands industrlization went ahead under near stalinist conditions ,


You name it every industrialized country developed as a result of state direction and only adopted free trade after its industries matured.