ACCORDING TO SOMALIWEYN...

[Voltage]

[Somaliweyn]

When a grown man bursts into little girl's giggles is when he hit the bottom.

Your exit

[RebelLion]

Voltage

I'm on your side lil nigga, I don't like people being ganged up on. To be fair, Barre(aun) accomplished many things, even though he will be remembered for his failures.

He was very good at manipulating groups and people, and in that sense he was a great leader. Plus he was 'president' for 21 years, that's quite an accomplishment. I compare him to the likes of mugabe, idi amin and other african dictators, brutal but they had their accomplishments too.

While aden cadde(aun), abdirashid ali Shermarke(aun) are like kwame nkrumah.

[Somaliweyn]

Voltage

I'm on your side lil nigga, I don't like people being ganged up on. To be fair, Barre(aun) accomplished many things, even though he will be remembered for his failures.

He was very good at manipulating groups and people, and in that sense he was a great leader. Plus he was 'president' for 21 years, that's quite an accomplishment. I compare him to the likes of mugabe, idi amin and other african dictators, brutal but they had their accomplishments too.

While aden cadde(aun), abdirashid ali Shermarke(aun) are like kwame nkrumah.

Well-said. If Idi Amin Is nr1 of Uganda, then surely Siad Barre must be nr of Somalia.

[S-D-M]

Siyad Bare (AUN) is gone. Move on and good luck with Tigra been in the capital.

[Voltage]

Plus he was 'president' for 21 years, that's quite an accomplishment.

Yet, I should sit here in a redundant 40 page topic about whether a two year presidency of a good but unaccomplished man is comparable to his rule. The irony sxb.

My record on this forum is open for all. I have never, ever, ever "backed" down from any debate but I will simply not legitimize this farce of a discussion. Damiirteyda yaanba ogolaanayn. I will only laugh at it because that is the only answer it deserves, something Somaliweyn knows and kills him inside.

[Twisted_Logic]

Voltage,

As I said, you have been disarmed spectacularly. Every-one who knows you have argued for-ever about topics that were useless and stupid. You made a stupid comment and SW took the liberty of calling out your folly and giving you the chance to correct your absurd comment, you refused and he schooled you big time. Every-one at SNET is a witness. You were forced to eat your words and couldn't do better than a million smileys. So, don't go around offering weak excuses, you have been taken apart systematically. Every-bit of your lies and distortions was debunked and SOLID sources provided to go along. Now, if I was you, I would go back to mommy and ask for some-more Abo Siyad recitals. Clearly, the ones you already have, have been maxed out and they mounted to naught

[sadeboi]

Cawar, I have already explained to why no one cares to really respond to Somaliweyn childish remarks, if you look back at it the guy did not mention any social/economical/military achievements of Aden Cadde [aun] and Abdirishid [aun] that can be compared to the revolution government. The guy has absolutely no source for any of the achievements he mentioned of the governments of the sixties, its all coming from his logic. Case and point the economical "achievements" of the 60's governments, when he was pressured to give credible source and to actually STATE their achievements HE COULD NOT:
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Somaliweyn, you have drove this thread into the wrong place, on purpose maybe.

Economic achievements:

It unleashed its first 5 year development plan in 1963.

The plan materiaized to some extent. While ofcourse some of the money ended up in private pockets as result of corruption.

So at mid 1966, a report found that the rate of implementation of the plan was only 25%!

This is the economic achievement you mentioned of the period of Aden Cadde(aun), in which you have accredited him basically no achievements. The first five-year plan did not work and the implementation of it was only 25%. So do you disagree that Aden Cadde (aun) had no economic achivements in his record, just promise on a paper which was not carried out?


You then got into Abdirishad era and you mentioned this:

To make up for delays in implementation, Government launches in 1968 a two-year Short-Term Development Programme.

You said he made a new [two-year] plan and in 1969 his government was toppled bro, and in knowing that, you accredited the early success of the revolutionary governments to this plan. When asked how did the 2-year plan achieve to help the revolutionary government in its early period you replied:

SB,
How else can you explain the fact that the military government that assumed power by coup d'etat saw impressive economic figures as early as 1969 and 1970-71.......the critical first years in which the generals were preoccupied with survival and power plays?

I ask you again, what source do you have to explain how the 2-year plan by Abdirishid helped the revolutionary government economic boast in its first few years of power? Also, I want an answer from you, DURING Abdirishids (aun) reign was there any substantial economic achivements besides that 2-year plan you mentioned that helped AFTER HIS REIGN?
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The discussion was about ranking the Presidents in their social/economical/military achievements, he was asked, since he disagreed with voltage, to rank the presidents in those terms. In the economical factor he did not mention any noteworthy of Aden Cadde [aun], however to discredit the economical achievements of Maj.Gen.Jalle Maxamed Siyaad Bare [aun] and the revolutionary government he stated that it was because of Abdirishids 2 year economic plan that was the platform for the success of the early economical achivements of the government. I asked the dude to provide a source, he did not. Now I want you to read from one of the sources he used in the discussion a lot.

Mahammad Siad Barre legitimated his 1969 coup d'etat in terms of the national economic malaise. On October 20, 1970, the first anniversary of the coup, he announced:



In our Revolution we believe that we have broken the chain of a consumer economy based on imports, and we are free to decide our destiny. And in order to realize the interests of the Somali people, their achievement of a better life, the full development of their potentialities and the fulfillment of their aspirations, we solemnly declare Somalia to be a Socialist State.

Relying on Soviet advisers and a committed group of Italian educated Somali "leftist" intellectuals, Siad Barre announced the 1971-73 Three-Year Plan. The plan emphasized a higher standard of living for every Somali, jobs for all who sought work, and the eradication of capitalist exploitation. Agricultural "crash programs" and creation of new manufacturing plants were the immediate results.

Again the discussion was about ranking the presidents in terms of their achivements, he did not even separate Abdirishid and Aden Cadde [aun both]when he mentioned their achievements nor did he mention specific achievements of any of them, just the same old tired runts of pseudo-democracy and dictatorship. HENCE WHY THE DISCUSSION IS QUITE A RETARDED ONE TO ENGAGE IN SALAAMS.

[Somaliweyn]

Sadeboi,

Take the discussion where it belongs:

Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

[Twisted_Logic]

Sadeboi,

You disappoint and sound so much like Voltage. Anyways, is that really the best counter-argument you come up with? Seriously, if you have a credible counter-argument, go back to the original thread and present your counter-arguments. voltage, has already dug himself a big hole, don't join him willingly.

[sadeboi]

Twisted to have a counter argument you must first be presented with a credible argument. And if you look at page 5 of that topic you will see that what I have mentioned here was mentioned there, yet it could not addressed. Why waste my time? BTW, he has no source for the economical/military achivements he mentioned of Aden Cadde nor Abdirishids reign.

[Twisted_Logic]

Twisted to have a counter argument you must first be presented with a credible argument. And if you look at page 5 of that topic you will see that what I have mentioned here was mentioned there, yet it could not addressed. Why waste my time? BTW, he has no source for the economical/military achivements he mentioned of Aden Cadde nor Abdirishids reign.

Sadeboi, My Brother, the thread got 918 hits and majority of people agree with my brother SW. In fact, you and your brother are the only guys who have the same argument. SW presented his argument, its your turn to present yours. If not, then there is no point in discussing, when the other party conveniently backs off when the talking gets toung

[Somaliweyn]

he has no source for the economical/military achivements he mentioned of Aden Cadde nor Abdirishids reign.

You have reading problems. My thread was nothing but quotations from sources. It is Voltage who utters things with no single source.

Anyways, either go raise your points in the original topic, or continue with dancing in circles by running around to other topics and repeating the same thing.



PS: Read it after Iftaar, your brain is dysfunctional without food apparently.

[sadeboi]

Economic achievements:

It unleashed its first 5 year development plan in 1963. See Z.A Konczacki (Nov., 1976) and Ozay Mehmet (May, 1971)

In this plan:

- 7% of total planned expenditure to development of the livestock sector (very low figure considering the fact that above 80% of Somali people are dependent on the livestock sector for their livelihoods)
- New research projects, well defined program aiming at improvement of animal husbandry and sedentarisation of nomads.
- In the pastoral sector, the Livestock Development Agency was formed in 1965-66
- Provision of water and veterinary services, and adequate marketing facilities and transportation services to increase tradable fraction of herds.
- Development of large areas of land for agricultural production (large state farms at Tugwajaleh and Jilib)
- Increase of sugar output through expansion of productive capacity of Jowhar sugar factory.
- Development of meat packing, fish processing, milk and dairy products, textiles and a few other industries.
- Construction or improvement of a number of roads
- Building/Expanding three seaports at Kismanyo, Berbera, and Mogadishu. (The civilian government expanded most of these ports).


The plan materiaized to some extent. While ofcourse some of the money ended up in private pockets as result of corruption.

So at mid 1966, a report found that the rate of implementation of the plan was only 25%!

To make up for delays in implementation, Government launches in 1968 a two-year Short-Term Development Programme.

Which is: ''the consolidation of the work of the First Five-Year Plan and the creation of basic conditions necessary for the formulation and implementation of future development programmes of a more ambitious nature''

Nontheless, the Economic Plans of the civilian government improved the economy of the country, even after they were replaced by the military government.

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These short-term development programme combined with the 5 year Plan, are the main reason why the period of 1969-1974 showed good economic figures. Siad Barre's regime had the honour to present the results of hard work of the previous government to the Somali people and claim it as their own work.

Now is this achievement that of the Somali government of 1960? Or of someone else?

This was the economic achievements he mentioned of Abdirishid and AdenCadde combined. I have already addressed this and Somaliweyn failed to answer. BTW, his only source is about the fact that a five year plan was unleashed.

[sadeboi]

Militarily, the Somali government is supposed to strengthen first of all the security apparatus of the nation for the benefit of the nation and people, second it must be effective in times of war.

Military aspect: achievements

On this front, the Somali government was doing good job, as the military apparatus of the state was established and further developed till the army itself grabbed power from the civilian government. Without the pre-independence and post-independence development of the military capabilities of the Somali nation, it would be impossible for the army to stage a coups d etat



Also, on this front, the first civilian government achieved to get a grant from the Soviet Union of $32 million, to modernize the Somali army and expand it to 14.000 personnal. This grant was later increased to $55 million. Besides this the Soviet Union also provided Somalia during the 60s with a substantial number of T-34 tanks, armored personnel carriers, MiG-15 and MiG-17 aircraft, small arms, and ammunition. Approximately 300 Soviet military advisers deployed to Somalia to train the army, and about 500 Somali pilots, officers, and technicians received training in the Soviet Union. (see Library of Congress, country study: Somalia)

This was incredible achievement considering the fact that the first goverment wasn't even socialist in character.

Also it succesfully repelled an Ethiopian aggression in the war of 1964.

Also the only credible achievement he mentioned of Aden Cade was the fact that Somali defended itself against Ethiopia in 1964. He also twists the facts, this is what he wrote:

Also, on this front, the first civilian government achieved to get a grant from the Soviet Union of $32 million, to modernize the Somali army and expand it to 14.000 personnal.

This is what it says:

Also, on this front, the first civilian government achieved to get a grant from the Soviet Union of $32 million, to modernize the Somali army and expand it to 14.000 personnal.

The goal WAS TO expand the army to 14,000 but it never mentions that it was achieved. Also it mentions that the only amount the Russians trained since their aide package was:

By the time Siad Barre terminated the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation with Moscow and expelled all Soviet advisers in 1977, about 2,400 Somali military personnel had undergone training in the Soviet Union and another 150 in Eastern Europe.

Now twisted this is all social/economical/military achievements he mentioned AND ITS NOTHING LIKE YOU DESCRIBED AND IT FULLY DETAILS THE REASON WHY HE IS LAUGHED AT AND IGNORED!