Dispute between somalia and Kenya

[Guardian]

They are agreeing only to put off the division of that additional disputed area until the standing dispute within the 200 mile limit is settled. Bes.

Yes that is accepted. But why are they agreeing this? When there is no reason for this to be agreed? Somalia can met the deadline relating to the outer limits or it can fail to do so. Where is there a need for an agreement to 'put off' the division of the disputed area? Why indeed is there a need for a joint agreement at all?

In the letter of understanding Kenya and Somalia are jointly claiming the continental shelf out to the 350 mile limit,

no they are saying that they do not object to their individual claims. They cannot make a joing claim. So again for the love of God why the joint agreement?

They are not making a joint claim. It is joint because both countries are claiming the same piece of land. Kenya will put forth its case in May 2009, and the Somali government will follow when it is ready

.

do you mean the disputed territory or the outer limits of it? There is absolutely no reason for this document to be joint. With regards to the outer limits of the territory both countries will make individual representations and with regards to the disputed land sea or whatever between Kenya and Somalia again both countries will make separate representations to the UN regarding that. There is no need for a joint document just because it is the 'same peice of land'

[Twisted_Logic]

Guardian,

This should answer your questions. It is an excerpt of a press release from the Prime Minister's Office.

Somalia dhulbadeedkeda hal taako lagama bixin lagamana bixinayo isla markaana labada dal uma dhaxeeyo wax muran ah oo ku saabsan xuduudka badda , sohdinta badda waxaa ay la mid tahay tan dhulka ee labada dal ka dhaxeysa sidaas darted macquul ma aha in bada la bixiyo iyadoo tan dhulka ay isku mid yihiin ,

Qoraalka la isla fahmay waxaa xusan qoraal oranaya hadii uu jiro meel lagu muransanayahay oo loo yaqaan “Maritime dispute” waxa loo diri doonaa dhaxdhaxaadin Caalami ah o micnaheedu yahay “International arbitration “ waxaana taa loo soo qaaday hadiiba uu soo baxo wax muran u eg , taasna fasiraad xun ayaa laga bixiyey.

Wadamada ku teedsan Badweynta Hindiya marka laga soo bilaabo cirifka Degmada gardafuy Cape of Good Hope ee k/Afrika ku taala wadan kasta dhinac badda xiga ee bariga ku aadan wuxu ku leeyahay 200mayl (Nautical Mile) oo qoyasta badda., Wadamadaas waxaa ka mid ah Somalia , Kenya , Mozabique iyo K/Afrika.


Labad daloo kasta daris ah oo ka mid ah wadamada waxey saxiixanayaan qoraal ay isla fahmeen oo ay ku codsanayaan in qeyb ku leeyihiin laga siiyo wixii ka baxsan sohdinta 200mayl ee dhulbadeedka waxa afka qalaad lagu yiraahdo “Continettal Shelf” .

Heshiiska nuucan ah 20-sano mar baa la saxiixaa , wuxuna dhacayaa ki kan ka horeeyey 13-may 2009 oo tarikhda ka hor hadaan la saxiixin ay labada dal weynayaan , waxaana dhulka lagu wareejinayaa Hay’adaha badaha aduunka oo qeyb ah nidaamka Q/M.

http://www.allpuntland.com/article/anmv ... a=4836&z=2

[Twisted_Logic]

As you can see, people are crying for no reason. If you examine the actual memorandum of understanding between Kenya and Somalia and the PM's Press Release, you will notice that the geographical area in question is not even Somalia's actual Maritime boundary which is 200 nautical Miles but rather the area of land that is beyond it which is usually termed as "international waters."

[Twisted_Logic]

Additional information that prove that maritime dispute between Kenya and Somalia has always existed:

The question of where exactly to draw the offshore border between Kenya and its northern neighbour Somalia has long been a concern for Kenya’s efforts in oil exploration in the Lamu region. However, with no central government or any legitimate governing body, Somalia will not be in a position to file the necessary documentation to secure its coastal areas, and therefore may lose its erritorial waters to Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Yemen. With the increased incidences of piracy in its waters too, it is likely that the international community will be more than willing to see the waters of the country be fall under the jurisdiction of one of its more stable neighbors. Already, the UN security council has given the green light to states to patrol the waters of Somalia to curb the incidences of piracy. Under the UNCLOS, this would actually not be allowed as it will be encroachment of a sovereign country's territorial waters.

http://www.ratio-magazine.com/200902094 ... aters.html

[stunnintolive]

true he knows nothing about politic sheik shariff loser how come you give to someone who dont know nothing

[almoha]

you are defending some thing you don't even know about for the sake of a person you share qabiil with. what if they renewed a contract which was done 20 years ago do they have what it takes to send pple there or defend them selves from what ever that may come from a stable government like kenya? any ways you can't sign a contract when there is no government who can't even deal with local problems.

[Voltage]

Qoraalka la isla fahmay waxaa xusan qoraal oranaya hadii uu jiro meel lagu muransanayahay oo loo yaqaan “Maritime dispute” waxa loo diri doonaa dhaxdhaxaadin Caalami ah o micnaheedu yahay “International arbitration “ .

The ignorance in this statement makes me laugh wallahi.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Once again the ilkoyarbiatch is put to silence and his holy jihad against hutus became fruitless

[Voltage]

In the letter of understanding Kenya and Somalia are jointly claiming the continental shelf out to the 350 mile limit, for those areas that are not below so-and-so many feet deep. International agreement requires that that all such claims
be made before May x of this year. They are agreeing only to put off the division of that additional disputed area until the standing dispute within the 200 mile limit is settled. That's it. Kenya has no new claim within the 200 mile limit and Somalia stands to gain considerable natural resources from it's new claim of the area from 200 to 350 miles out. Bes.

Grant I really don't know if you read a different document than I have but your interpretation of that document is not even close to what it says. You said:

1. Kenya has no new claim within 200 mile.
2. It is Somalia that stands to gain from new claim of area from 200-350 (and persumably Kenya doesn't).
3. The document puts off division of additional disputed area until standing dispute is settled.

What document are you reading?

The document in the FIRST page outlines the objective of the "memorandum" and I will post it for you so you can see how the objective is written verbatim.



First of all that objective itself shreds a good chunk of your interpretation of the document. Kenya does have claim beyond 200 miles and Somalia has as much chance of gaining new area as Kenya (and I would argue has even less chance based on the international system).

However, after reading carefully I have to say you are right and all this memorandum does is it gives Kenya and Somalia the understanding that only they should settle their claims. So while the area beyond the 200 nautical miles shall be delimitated on the outer parameteres by the Commission, it is for Kenya and Somalia to decide how they will come to an agreement within the allocated territory.

[Murax]

Twisted,

You're a bright lad. Why the heck would a real Country such as Kenya enter into 'fair negotiations' with a Lawless state without ripping them off. Are You out of Your mind?

[Twisted_Logic]

Qoraalka la isla fahmay waxaa xusan qoraal oranaya hadii uu jiro meel lagu muransanayahay oo loo yaqaan “Maritime dispute” waxa loo diri doonaa dhaxdhaxaadin Caalami ah o micnaheedu yahay “International arbitration “ .

The ignorance in this statement makes me laugh wallahi.

Only if the endless smileys could hide the utter ignorance and poor comprehension skills that you habitually display....only if

From the book, The maritime boundaries of the Indian Ocean region By Vivian Louis Forbes. Here are some excerpts:

In the Indian Ocean region, Somalia claimed a width of 200 nm whilst Tanzania and Malagasy claimed a more modest width of 50 nm

Somalia remains steadfast in claiming a territorial sea limit of 200 nm, which is well in excess of what is accepted by international law

Along the East African seaboard, maritime boundaries had yet to be negotiated between Somalia and Kenya

Excluding the undefined boundaries in the Persian Gulf there are 14 potential boundaries to be negotiated in this region. They are the boundaries between: Kenya and Somalia; Somalia and Djibouti; Somalia and Yemen;

Still maintain that there was NEVER any dispute eh? What a sad twat you really are

[Voltage]

Twisted you are like the handicapped dog that eats scraps from under the table. File behind Grant like you have been doing and let me deal with him.

[Twisted_Logic]

Twisted you are like the handicapped dog that eats scraps from under the table. File behind Grant like you have been doing and let me deal with him.

Once again your entire argument came down miserably like a pack of cards. It is understandable that you have to contort this thread to further vent your delusions.


Thanks to jeysteeye, here are free elementary education for you.


1. Sheikh Sharif TFG and Kenya signed "Memorandum of Understanding" - on the subject of "The limits of the continental Shelf" claims.


2. I think the Jobless Idiots in Paltalk and Haters of Sheikh Sharif Government haven't read any geography Book! Almost 75% of the nations on earth need to sign continental Shelf Agreement. Why?! Because they've access to sea! And most of The continental shelf occurs in the sea!


3. What's continental shelf?

Answer: The extended perimeter of each continent and associated coastal plain. Have you ever heard the words "Continental Drift"?



Do you not know that Somalia will be the newest Island on earth in about one hundred thousand years time? Do you not know that somalia will have the worlds largest Territorial waters, or a territorial sea in about one hundred thousand years time?

4. I repeat many of the nations of earth need to submit their Continental Shelf reports and DATA Middle of 2009 to United Nations.

Here's proof:

"It happens that 2009 will see the expiry of the term that many countries, including Argentina and the United Kingdom, have in which to make their submissions to the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, an independent entity made up of experts, created by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The extended continental shelf is an area that stretches outward from the limit of 200 miles from the coast, and can extend as far as 350 miles.

Why must countries make these submissions? For two fundamental reasons. The first is that they will receive confirmation from the Commission regarding the outer limit of their continental shelf.

This will in turn confirm their rights over the natural resources on the seabed or beneath it, on the extended continental platform.

It is also important to contribute to defining the framework of the law of the sea. This will make it possible to establish the areas of seabed that are within the jurisdiction of the coastal states, and those that -on the other hand-constitute the deep ocean bed. The latter is administered by the International Seabed Authority as common world heritage.

The preparation of these submissions is a lengthy and complex task, as it is necessary to demonstrate the physical extent of the continental shelf as an area distinct from the deep ocean bed." (British Position on the Continental Shelf (11/10/07)

Quote from Today's news:

"The agreement will facilitate the presentation of Kenya's submissions to the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf by May as required under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The Somali prime minister said the agreement was necessary for the preparation of Somalia's claim for the extension of Somalia continental shelf as the cooperation between neighbors is a pre- requite for the submission of the war-torn country's claim." (CRIEnglish.com 8. April 2009.)

You have always been a failure, voltage

Next-time, don't stick your nose in subjects you have no understanding of

[laander8]

Twisted Logic

If it wasn't for me and all the other people on SomaliNet who reacted this would have passed us in silence.

Now regarding the Kenya Somali Republic boundary demarcation and the expanding of EEZ
You should bear in mind that we are talking about two different issues.

The notion about Somalia gaining more is absolutely irrelevant compared to the adressed issue.
I never under any circumstances said it was anything more than a memorandum of understanding.

According to the only official document which became available to the public after I submitted my thread -- the MOU -- not a single square kilometer of Somalia's territorial waters/land has been confirmed to be on sale.
Nobody ever talked about sale , I'm not interested in the financial aspect, nor the irrelevant geological information, but the sheer irrationality of going into any legal matters at our stage just to help Kenya to submit their claim which again overlaps our territorial integrity.

The signing ceremony which took place at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was witnessed amongst others by Amb. Longve Hans Wilhelm, Special Advisor in the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Ms. Rina Kristmoen from the Embassy of Norway in Nairobi. Also present were the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Permanent Secretary Mr. Thuita Mwangi, Director for Political Affairs Amb. Ben Ogutu and the Head of Legal Division Mr. James Kihwaga.

Have you ever wondered why Somalia sent the planning and coordination minister in meeting with these sharks?
For those of you who don't remember it was the norwegians who was the main reason to our failed demarcation between Somalia and Ethiopia back in the 60s through their late King Olav who sent ' advisor ' Trygve Lie.
We are doing the same mistake again, not even a single muslim diplomat witnessed this scheme.

Have any of you people heard about the grey zone between Norway and Russia.
It's a jurisdictional term little Norway managed to create. Today what seemed harmless keeps Russia from developing anything in that sector because of the entitlement and agreement of a dispute .


Signing that MOU, was the first sign to allow Kenya to negotiate what was otherwise non negotiable our northward delineated boundary from 1.37.46.21 South ' 41.34.26.26 East.
Wether the UNCLOS and Kenya highlights there never was any agreement between Somalia and Kenya.
Is irrelevant, to give you an example Somalia might as well claim there is a dispute between us and United Kingdom over the Diego Garcia islands in the indian ocean.
We had an monopol situation now it has been changed to a dispute.

Twisted Logic I want to remind you the introduction once again

To grant eachother no objection in respect of submission on the outher limits of the continental shelf beyond 200 nm to the commission on limits of the continental shelf.

Congratulations Transitional Federal Government of Somalia
You just widened an already existing problem with some 150 nautical miles to ' dispute ' about.
Another word which was introduced in the MOU and of couse signed by our gullible government.
On top of that Kenya had the audacity to submit this map



Do you know where such cases end after countries go to war over it?

Europe/Gaalos/UN

Do you believe in gaalo jurisdiction and resettlement?




The Kenyans intention is very clear why bother helping them by signing a MOU.

Now that we have ' recognised ' there is a dispute between Somalia and Kenya over what was otherwise as Somali as the waters outside Hobyo we have to change the game in the future.

I hereby declare the case to be solved only regarding to the MOU but not the boundary.

Thank you for your passionate engagement SomaliNet forumers.
We are alive and had the patience to await our governments response in defence.

Nothing to be ashamed of , our emotions or haste.

1. We never concluded on one source but chosed to await more relevant information.
2. We had no information avaible untill 72 hours later.
3. We love Somalia and every inch of and has the matter to question the most simplistic agreement.
4. We have been in anarchic political situation which affects us dramatically of course we are unsure of eachother and our leaders.
5. Indeed we have a lot to work on, but don't let anyone dismiss you no matter what.


I recommend our next step should be to start patrolling the ' disputed ' waters so our fishermen are not harassed in the future and to show who is in charge of the area.

My final conlusion:
I strongly deny to entitle the mathematically perfect delineatation as a grey zone / disputed waters otherwise they might as well demarcate Kenyan maritime waters up to Bandar Beyla .

[Voltage]

Twisted what's worse then seeing a fish gulping for oxygen on land is a human resembling a headless chicken. For your own sake, realize you are a laughingstock.