Historical Picture

[Twisted_Logic]

Vooltage,

Saaxib, you never change nor grow up. Always relying on un-sourced or myths to explain important events.

Prime Minister Abdullahi Cisse was the head of a cabinet and handled the day to day affairs of Somalia during the trusteeship years. His official and title was THE PRIME MINISTER OF SOMALIA, so there is no way you are going to tell us that he was just some secretary.

As for the Marehan Union, Marehan was an insignificant power in Somali politics before 1969. This explains why Marehan had a separate party because they felt their interests where not being represented in the SYL. Hawiye had a dominant position within the SYL especially during the 1950s and 1960s. Actually, when the Communist Coup happened, alot of Majerteen people were pissed off not because the new regime was Communist but because they saw it as an insult to be led by a Marehan

The Majerteen saw themselves as the backbone of the Somali struggle for independence. They looked down on the Marehan as "Bush People,"

Politics, Language and Thought: The Somali Experience By David Laitin pp-121

The Hawiye Union party was a fringe element within Hawiye politics. Somalia's premier party at the time was the SYL. Hawiye was in the driving seat.

In 1952, Xaaji Maxamad Xuseen went to Cairo, and the Hawiya wing of the SYL became more powerful. In the 1956 elections, the last to be held under direct Italian supervision, the SYL maintained its dominance, and the Italian administration appointed Cabdullahi Ciise as the FIRST Prime Minister of an all-Somali government. This signaled another change in the SYL's character, for Cabdullahi Ciise and the then SYL President, Aaden Cabdulle Cismaan, were both on good terms with the Italian administration.*

Castagno, pp 523-25, Explains the change in the power balance by suggesting that the British Military Administration favored the Daarod clan, while the Italian Administration favored the Hawiya.

Politics, Language and Thought: The Somali Experience By David Laitin pp-100

Both PM Abdullahi Ciise and President Aden Abdulle Osman gained positions of power by outmaneuvering their opponents and also because of Italian favoring of the Hawiya wing of the SYL while the British supported the Darod wing of the SYL. In both the 1956-1960 and the 1960-67 election, the Hawiye wing of the SYL won the elections.

Before PM Abdullahi Ciise became the Somali Prime Minister, he was the SYL Secretary-General. Since the 1949 elections of the SYL and the decline of the Darood (MJ) power, Hawiye has been in the driver seat of the SYL. This explains the decline in public support for the Osmaniya script since the SYL under Abdullahi Ciise and a certain Xaaji Maxamed Xuseen who was Reer Xamar had no interest in the Osmaniya Script.

With regards to Aden Abdulle Osman. Of course, they had overwhelming power, but this was in comparison with other Darood clans and not with hawiye

In the 1960 cabinet, 6 of the ministers were Darood while 4 were Hawiye. In the 1967 cabinet, 6 of the ministers were Darod while 5 were hawiye. I will assume that most of these 6 Darood ministers were Majerteen

President Aden Abdulle Osman was his own man. In 1962, he told the American historian E A Bayne that:

He replied that he encourages individual or group protests to be sent to him. As they arrive, he passes the compliment on to the prime minister to investigate and to provide the president’s office with the facts of the situation. If the government’s reply is incomplete, or unsatisfactory, the president “requests” that reforms be made.

“Could your “request” for reform be better termed an ‘order’?” I asked.

The president smiled; he has an easily stimulated but gentle sense of humor.

“Since I can ask the Prime Minister to resign,” he said, “my “requests” are usually followed!”

Four Ways of Politics: State and Nation in Italy, Somalia, Israel and Iran PP- 113

The most famous picture of the Civilian Era is this:



You have:

President Aden Abdulle Osman Commander-in-Chief of the Armed forces and president of the Republic
Gen Daud Abdulle Hirsi AUN- Chief of the Armed Forces of Somalia
Gen Gen. Salad Gabeyre Kadiye- Chief of the Army Staff of Somalia
Gen Xussein Kulmiye Afrax- Deputy Police Chief of Somalia

ALL were Mudulood men

So there you have it. It doesn't matter if your grandmothers tell you about the history of the Kacaan. History is already recorded


Few years later, the Prime Minister was fired and another MJ PM was asked to lead the new government.

[Twisted_Logic]

For me, because there is only one reason Twisted started this topic.

Actually, No. You just have an inferiority complex like the rest of your clan

[Twisted_Logic]

Voltage,

Some mysterious Darod uncle of Abdullahi Cisse AUN engineered PM Abdullahi Ciise's political raise within the SYL, eh?

The delicate issue of Greater Somalia, whose recreation would entail the detachment from Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Kenya of Somali-inhabited areas, presented Somali leaders with a dilemma: they wanted peace with their neighbors, but making claims on their territory was certain to provoke hostility. Led by Haaji Mahammad Husseen, the SYL radical wing wanted to include in the constitution an article calling for the unification of the Somali nation "by all means necessary." In the end, the moderate majority prevailed in modifying the wording to demand "reunification of the dismembered nation by peaceful means."

During the four-year transition to independence, conflicts over unresolved economic and political issues took the form of intraparty squabbling within the dominant SYL rather than interparty competition, as Daarood and Hawiye party stalwarts banded into factions. The Daarood accused Iise's government of being under Italian influence and the Hawiye countered with a charge of clannishness in the Daarood ranks. Husseen's radical faction continued to charge Iise's government with being too close to the West, and to Italy in particular, and of doing little to realize the national goal of reconstituting Greater Somalia. Despite his rift with prime minister Iise, Husseen, who had headed the party in the early years, was again elected SYL president in July 1957. But his agenda of looser ties with the West and closer relations with the Arab world clashed with the policies of Iise and of Aadan Abdullah Usmaan, the parliamentary leader who would become the first president of independent Somalia. Husseen inveighed against "reactionaries in government," a thinly veiled reference to Iise and Usmaan. The latter two responded by expelling Husseen and his supporters from the SYL. Having lost the power struggle, Husseen created a militant new party, the Greater Somali League (GSL). Although Husseen's firebrand politics continued to worry the SYL leadership, he never managed to cut deeply into the party's constituency.

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/14.htm

[Voltage]

Lol @ this long comeback. I am actually amazed you sit before and debate the stature of Hawiye in old Somalia. As for David Latin, he was trying to explain why the MJ opposed Siad Barre and making in language his Western audience can comprehend in the sense of the "other". Somalis were nomads above 90% percentile in 1969 and less than 5% were literate and in foreign languages. Beyond that what should I respond to and waste my time with...that Hawiye has history or that the only person who can be named in the picture you posted is Addan Cadde? The miracles of the internet. Yes Twisted, you have history in former Somalia. I hope you can stop being insecure now.

[Twisted_Logic]

Lol @ this long comeback. I am actually amazed you sit before and debate the stature of Hawiye in old Somalia. As for David Latin, he was trying to explain why the MJ opposed Siad Barre and making in language his Western audience can comprehend in the sense of the "other". Somalis were nomads above 90% in 1969 and less than 5% were literate and foreign languages. Beyond that what should I respond to and waste my time with...that Hawiye has history or that the only person who can be named in the picture you posted is Addan Cadde? The miracles of the internet. Yes Twisted, you have history in former Somalia. I hope you can stop being insecure now.

Many things you are, my brother. Boring, you are not.

The book by David Laitin was strictly with regards to the development of the Somali script and since the formation of the Somali script and politics can't be separated, he dealt with the political realities in Somalia at that time. Of course, one of the most base factors to keep in mind is the fact that Historian do in fact have biases. We have always tried to reinforce this point to you. However, you have continuously taken Western historians/anthropologists to be the gospel truth when it suits you. Hence, in this curious position you have crafted for yourself, it makes sense that you will cry foul. I don't really care much for Darood politics. I have only one yardstick that I measure my views.

That picture I have posted can and have been verified by almost any seriously thinking Somali. Of course, you will take issue with it since you are inherently insecure, but I don't really care about it. If you have any explanation as to who is in that picture, do so, and I will actually disregard the opinion of the off-springs of these very men who confirmed it to me. Keep in mind that I received this picture and dozens more from the late President's own grandson. So go ahead, make my day, boy!

With regards to insecurity, your very first post on this thread is a clear example

[King-of-Awdal]

Quite shocking this thread has not reached 20 pages. Next Sadeboi and Somaliweyn will show up and probabaly Dawwa will come in last minute and say MJ this MJ that and all southerners are fool's.

[Twisted_Logic]

Quite shocking this thread has not reached 20 pages. Next Sadeboi and Somaliweyn will show up and probabaly Dawwa will come in last minute and say MJ this MJ that and all southerners are fool's.

[AbdiWahab252]

TL,

Awesome picture. I am proud to have met Cabdullahi Ciise (AUN). He was a wonderful man

[Voltage]

Indha adakaa, I mean if you left it at Addan cadde, and Gen Da'uud it would be understandable, but adding in the only two other military heads you had and attributing false titles and sections of the armed forces (such as police for Kulmiye Afrax who was in the army) just kills the whole charade!

So far the only man who has been indentified in that picture is Addan Cadde and I know you and heck most of your clan want to have the same claim to governance the Marehan had under Siyaad and the MJ in the 60's but I doubt that picture has 4 Mudulood men lining up while the rest of the Somali people watch from the sidelines. It is not realistic history and isn't believable even in fantasy history.

[Twisted_Logic]

Indha adakaa, I mean if you left it at Addan cadde, and Gen Da'uud it would be understandable, but adding in the only two other military heads you head and attributing false titles and sections of the armed forces (such as police for Kulmiye Afrax who was in the army) just kills the whole charade!

I pity you, Voltage.



Salad Gabayre is standing immediately to the right of the President. To his immediate left is Hussain Kulmiye Afrah and behind Hussain Kulmiye Afrah is Gen Daud. I dare you to explicitly refute this fact.

As for Hussain Kulmiye Afrah, he was in fact, in the Police force. Here is a brief biography about him:

1954tii, ka dib markii uu soo dhammeystay tababarkii uu ku soo qaatay dalka Talyaaniga waxaa loo magacaabay in uu noqdo taliyihii ciidanka boliiska ee magaalada Baledweyne halkaas oo uu taliye ka ahaa illaa sanadkii 1956dii.

1956dii – 1960kii wuxuu jagooyin kala geddisan ka soo qabtay dhammaan xafiisyadii xarunta dhexe ee ciidankii boliiska Soomaaliyeed, halkaas oo uu ku gaaray darejada Gaashaanle.

Sanadkii 1960kii markii ay Soomaaliya qaadatay wuxuu u dallacay darejada G/Sare, wuxuu jagooyin muhiim ah ka soo qabtay xarunta dhexe ee ciidankii boliiska Soomaaliyeed.

Sanadkii 1968dii wuxuu u dallacay darejada S/Guuto wuxuuna noqday taliye ku xigeenkii ciidanka boliiska Soomaaliyeed.

This is a picture of Gen Daud Abdulle Hirsi



Here is an image of Hussain Kulmiye Afrah



So there you, go. The only "charade" we are seeing is right infront of us and it calls itself "voltage"

[Voltage]

I dare you to refute ku lahaa. I guess this is a race between us for the one who gets his hands on the original caption although I am 100% sure there will not be a lot of effort in this regard on your part.

[Twisted_Logic]

I dare you to refute ku lahaa. I guess this is a race between us for the one who gets his hands on the original caption although I am 100% sure there will not be a lot of effort in this regard on your part.

You question the fact that those men in the picture were the President Aden Abdulle Osman, Gen Daud Abdulle Hirsi, Gen Salad Ali Gabayer and Gen Hussain Kulmiye Afrah. So the onus lies in your case to prove why it isn't so. I even provided you pictures of the men in question to help you along

[Voltage]

I know it is not in your interest to find the original caption but I promise to make sure I find it.

[Twisted_Logic]

I know it is not in your interest to find the original caption but I promise to make sure I find it.

As I said, I received that picture together with dozens of rare historical pictures from the grandson of the late President. If you have proof that authenticates your claim, present it to us. We are all ears

[AbdiWahab252]

TL,

Dude, becareful, if you ever become famous, Voltage will consult the Oracles of Quule to see if you have a Marehan link and then associate your success to that Marehan Link.