A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

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Voltage
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Voltage »

The UN agreement established the Italian Trusteeship Administration (Amministrazione Fiduciaria Italiana della Somalia--AFIS) to prepare southern Somalia for independence over a ten-year period. Under the agreement, a UN Advisory Council based in Mogadishu observed the AFIS and reported its progress to the UN Trusteeship Council. The agreement required the new administration to develop the colony's political institutions, to expand the educational system, to improve the economic infrastructure, and to give the indigenous people freedom of the press and the right to dissent.
The centerpiece of the initiatives was a series of seven-year development programs introduced in 1954. Drawing on development blueprints provided by the United States Agency for International Cooperation (AIC; later the United States Agency for International Development--AID) and the UN Development Programme, the Italian administration initiated plans to stimulate local agriculture, to improve the infrastructure, and to expand educational facilities. Exports, responding to these stimuli, trebled from 1954 to 1960. Despite these improvements, an acute balance of payments deficit persisted, and the administration had to rely on foreign grants and Italian subsidies to balance the budget.

Development efforts in education were more successful. Between 1952 and 1957, student enrollment at the elementary and secondary levels doubled. In 1957 there were 2,000 students receiving secondary, technical, and university education in Italian Somaliland and through scholarship programs in China, Egypt, and Italy. Another program offered night-school adult literacy instruction and provided further training to civil servants. However, these programs were severely handicapped by the absence of a standard script and a written national language. Arabic, Italian, and English served as media of instruction in the various schools; this linguistic plurality created a Tower of Babel.

Progress was made throughout the 1950s in fostering political institutions.
In accordance with a UN resolution, in 1950 the Italians had established in Italian Somaliland an advisory body known as the Territorial Council, which took an active part in discussions of proposed AFIS legislation. Composed of thirty-five members, the council came to be dominated by representatives of political parties such as the SYL and HDM. Acting as a nascent parliament, the Territorial Council gained experience not only in procedural matters but also in legislative debates on the political, economic, and social problems that would face future Somali governments. For its part the AFIS, by working closely with the council, won legitimacy in Somali eyes.

There were other forums, besides the Territorial Council, in which Somalis gained executive and legislative experience. These included the forty-eight-member Municipal Council introduced in 1950, whose members dealt with urban planning, public services, and, after 1956, fiscal and budgetary matters. Rural councils handled tribal and local problems such as conflicts over grazing grounds and access to water and pasturelands. However, the effectiveness of the rural councils was undermined by the wanderings of the nomads as they searched for water wells and pastures, a circumstance that made stable political organizations difficult to sustain. Thus, the UN Advisory Council's plans to use the rural councils as bridges to development turned out to be untenable, a situation that enabled AFIS-appointed district commissioners to become the focus of power and political action.

Territory-wide elections were first held in southern Somalia in 1956.
Although ten parties fielded candidates to select representatives to a new seventy-seat Legislative Assembly that replaced the Territorial Council, only the SYL (which won forty- three seats) and HDM (which won thirteen seats) gained significant percentages of the sixty seats that the Somalis contested. The remaining ten seats were reserved for Indians, Arabs, and other non-Somalia.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Voltage »

This is why the U.N Trust territory of Southern Somalia was more prepared for independence then the neglected British colonial backwater of Somaliland.
The conditional return of Italian administration to southern Somalia gave the new trust territory several unique advantages compared with other African colonies. To the extent that Italy held the territory by UN mandate, the trusteeship provisions gave the Somalis the opportunity to gain experience in political education and self-government. These were advantages that British Somaliland, which was to be incorporated into the new Somali state, did not have. Although in the 1950s British colonial officials attempted, through various development efforts, to make up for past neglect, the protectorate stagnated. The disparity between the two territories in economic development and political experience would cause serious difficulties when it came time to integrate the two parts.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Somaliweyn »

The only reason why Voltage/DawladSade mitigates the importance of SYL and their impact on modern Somali history is because of his support for the military coup and the dictator that ruined Somalia. In order to glorify the late dictatorial regime he and the Barre-worshippers need to mitigate everything that happened before the dictator and everything that came after him.

Without SYL, the colonial administration would be prolonged for 30 years instead of the 10 year trusteeship period.

The SYL not only propagated for the independance of Somalia every since the end of WWII in 1945, but they even opposed fiercly the 10-year trusteeship. When the two superpowers (US-USSR) could not agree on who to rule Somalia, they agreed to place it under UN trusteeship under Italy. Again, the SYL as the Pan-Somali party opposed this Italian trusteeship vehemently and staged bloody demonstrations.

If we had not SYL, Pan-Somali ideology would have died with the defeat of the Darawish cause in 1921. SYL carried on the Darawish struggle through political means and tried to modernize the Somali nation.

SYL made sure we did not become like other African nations who had to wait 20-30 years in order to become independent. They made sure we were part of the first wave of independent nations on the African continent.

The succesive SYL goverments achieved many things, but eventually those goverments failed to rise above clan-structured Somali society and were plagued by clannism and nepotism. This paved the way for the illegal military coup which led to an oppressive dictatorship. Fortunately the dictator was defeated and exiled from the country.


Voltage like all other Barre-worshippers who glorify the late Dictator were expected to mitigate the legacy of SYL.

I have one question for those Barre worshippers:

- Why do all Somali people (save for the Barre worshippers) respect and speak highly of SYL?

- Why do all Somali people (save for the Barre worshippers) speak ill about the late Dictator?
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by abdalla11 »

Somaliweyn, excellent :up: But let's not generalize.

The SYL weren't a typical freedom fighters. They fought colonialism through politics and not via military. They used their brains and knew that fighting the colonizers military would be useless. They had leadership, unity and one goal: getting rid of the colonizers and their influences.

This the answer of PM Cabdirizaaq Xaaji Xusayn to imperialism
[quote“We are opposed to imperialism in any form and call for its downfall,Imperialism, which comes in many colors includes the Apartheid policy practiced by the evil fascist government of South Africa, and the merciless imperialism practiced by Portugal in Angola, Mozambique and other enslaved colonies.”][/quote]

The biggest difference between MSB and the SYL was:the SYL fought for Somalia and MSB fought for his persona. The reason of his was the great amount of foreign influences.
It is a disgrace to compare those two.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Somaliweyn »

abdalla11 wrote:Somaliweyn, excellent :up: But let's not generalize.

The SYL weren't a typical freedom fighters. They fought colonialism through politics and not via military. They used their brains and knew that fighting the colonizers military would be useless. They had leadership, unity and one goal: getting rid of the colonizers and their influences.

This the answer of PM Cabdirizaaq Xaaji Xusayn to imperialism
[quote“We are opposed to imperialism in any form and call for its downfall,Imperialism, which comes in many colors includes the Apartheid policy practiced by the evil fascist government of South Africa, and the merciless imperialism practiced by Portugal in Angola, Mozambique and other enslaved colonies.”]
The biggest difference between MSB and the SYL was:the SYL fought for Somalia and MSB fought for his persona. The reason of his was the great amount of foreign influences.
It is a disgrace to compare those two.[/quote]


We lost the resistance through military means: Darawish, banadir resistance, Gedo resistance, Hiiraan Resistance etc.

SYL started a political resistance and continued the legacy of the military resistance struggle before 1921.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Voltage »

Somaliweyn wrote:The only reason why Voltage/DawladSade mitigates the importance of SYL and their impact on modern Somali history is because of his support for the military coup and the dictator that ruined Somalia. In order to glorify the late dictatorial regime he and the Barre-worshippers need to mitigate everything that happened before the dictator and everything that came after him.
What in colonial era legitimizes or delegitimizes the coup of 1969 for me to use that as a motive? I can understand someone saying you demonize the 60's in order to legitimize the 1969 (which is not something unique to Barre supporters considering the bloodless coup was the most popular thing to happen then at that time) but I would like to see what argument someone puts forward for saying the fight for liberation in Somalia had bearing or delegitimized the coup and that is the reasoning someone would have. Between the colonial era and the 69 coup was the infamous 60's where 600 political parties contested an election based on sub-clannish lines. Why would there be a link of negative reinforcement between Siyaad government and the colonial era? LMFAO! :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Voltage on Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by grandpakhalif »

Somalia was shit before MSB and likewise after,GOD BLESS AABE SIYAAD BARRE :som: :som: TRUE PATRIOT
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Voltage »

grandpakhalif wrote:Somalia was shit before MSB and likewise after,GOD BLESS AABE SIYAAD BARRE :som: :som: TRUE PATRIOT
This discussion has nothing to do with Siad Barre. Don't fall for his cuqdad.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Voltage wrote:
Somaliweyn wrote:The only reason why Voltage/DawladSade mitigates the importance of SYL and their impact on modern Somali history is because of his support for the military coup and the dictator that ruined Somalia. In order to glorify the late dictatorial regime he and the Barre-worshippers need to mitigate everything that happened before the dictator and everything that came after him.
What in colonial era legitimizes or delegitimizes the coup of 1969 for me to use that as a motive? I can understand someone say you demonize the 60's in order to legitimize the 1969 (which is not something unique to Barre supporters consider the bloodless was the most popular thing to happen then at that time) but I would like to see what argument someone puts forward for saying the fight for liberation in Somalia had bearing or legitimized the coup and that is the reasoning someone would have. Between the colonial era and the 69 coup was the infamous 60's where 600 political parties contested an election based on sub-clannish lines. Why would there be a link of negative reinforcement between Siyaad government and the colonial era? LMFAO! :lol: :lol:
People have an inherent right to contest in democratic elections. Why should we be concerned about how many people run for seats? This is a stupid argument to attack democracy. Democracy is for the people, by the people and for the people. This is a stupid argument to attack democracy
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Voltage wrote:
grandpakhalif wrote:Somalia was shit before MSB and likewise after,GOD BLESS AABE SIYAAD BARRE :som: :som: TRUE PATRIOT
This discussion has nothing to do with Siad Barre. Don't fall for his cuqdad.
So anyone who questions the 1969 coup has "cuqdad"? Amazing
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by The_Emperior5 »

I don’t even think siyaad barre the civilizer would want the colonialist back :lol: ,
the trauma the Italians gave him I don’t think he got rid of it even when Somalia got indepdence. :lol:
Last edited by The_Emperior5 on Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Voltage »

Twisted_Logic wrote:
Voltage wrote:
grandpakhalif wrote:Somalia was shit before MSB and likewise after,GOD BLESS AABE SIYAAD BARRE :som: :som: TRUE PATRIOT
This discussion has nothing to do with Siad Barre. Don't fall for his cuqdad.
So anyone who questions the 1969 coup has "cuqdad"? Amazing
No of course not. Twisted I know you are a logical guy so try to be logical for once since I know you are very capable of being objective and non-partisan when you want to.

The cuqdad is giving me a motive for this thread based on the 1969 coup? Again where is the negative reinforcement between between the colonial fights and the 69 coup for me to have a motive? You have caught me and many coup supporters talk about what transpired in the 60's but where have you seen me or any other Barre supporters as SOmaliweyn collectively summed them up disparage SYL or talk about the colonial era with motives in the 69 coup?

The whole notion is ridiculous and just reinforces for me the extent of this kid's cuqdad. Siad's government encouraged the idealist image of great fight for colonial era. He built Dhagaxtuur and Xaawo Taako to symbolize fights for liberation when Somalis were granted independence in 1949 with the stroke of the pen. He went that far to put in our images this great freedom fighting legionnaire during the colonial days. Where is the negative reinforcement between 69 and the colonial era for me to have a motive for this topic along those lines?

Cuqdad.com
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Cumar-Labasuul »

I think what some people are trying to tell us is that they want this sort of stuff back:
Image
Image

Can you imagine how humiliating that must have been, to wear a uniform that consists of surwaal yar.
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Voltage »

Waa iska caadi waxaas haysku maaweelin. The means to an end. :mrgreen:
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Re: A big example why oral Somali history has to be flushed out.

Post by Eaglehawk »

don`t emotionalize, personalize and tribalize history people.

some people think that abdulahi cise swallowed a paper that supposedly contained somali top secret info, which is historicly wrong and that shows you that somali history contains alot of he said she said nonsens.
I truly believe syl played inside the mechanism that where set and controlled by colonist, if somali could earn independence based on their archievments and abilities it would have happend under the sayed.
even after independence the italiyans continued to manage stuff behind the scenens and the elites where required to speak italian and even former british subjects(egal) of the nort assimilated well into the italian protege dominated upper class

the syl had two choices either beccome part of ethiopia for which ethiopia was lobbying hard or become a independent republic, syl choose the later and its in here that they get credit because the choose independence which was uncertain for a periode.
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