Somali genetic genealogy, my attempt at subclades

[James Dahl]

James excuse my ignorence, how once can take the test?

There are various companies and organizations that offer a variety of testing products.
Family Tree DNA is the best one, though it's also the most expensive. The cheapest one tests for 12 markers, while the most expensive one tests for 67 markers, which I ordered the other day.

http://www.familytreedna.com/

[James Dahl]

JAMES; WHAT EXACTLY DOES THE TERM "SOMALID" MEAN
I SEE THAT IN A LOT OF FORUMS WHERE GENEOLAGY IS THE SUBJECT

I think it's an attempt to designate some sort of race of humanity around Somali features.
I did a Google search and the only hits I got were racist websites and Somali discussion forums.
Discussing "races" has always struck me as rather odd, we're all the same race, we're the Human race.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

James Dahl, I remember sometime ago you wrote that the ancient somalis used a Libyco-berber script; which I have neither seen nor heard of. What proof do you have that somalis had a standard writing system before the 20th century, and how come no one has ever seen it or the fact that we are using a latin script today instead of a script that was derived from it like berber, punic and aramaic/arabic?

[AwdalPrince]

James Dahl, I remember sometime ago you wrote that the ancient somalis used a Libyco-berber script; which I have neither seen nor heard of. What proof do you have that somalis had a standard writting system before the 20th century, and how come no one has ever seen it or the fact that we are using a latin script today instead of a script that was derived from it like berber, punic and aramaic/arabic?

the reason why we are using the latin script today is because of siyad barre. he wanted to westernise the somalis so bad that he made them writein the latin alphabet. The original Somalis were an oral society so no need to write. A nomad is poetic, writing for him is pointless. Writing develops from the need to be stationary and in an environment in which others can check and read your work. However in a pastoral society there is no concept of a library. That is only for areas where there is a settled population.

[ModerateMuslim]

the norwegian dahl is a fitnah maker - he's always promoting divisions among somalis/muslims: tribalism, arab fairy tales, race and ethnicity, genetic genealogy, and so on.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Sorry for the slight change in topic. I was wondering what the link between somali and the semitic languages in the afro-asiatic family is. I mean, in the indo-european language family, there are clear etymologic link between languages from german to hindi, from enlish to russian from french to greek.
Example;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Europ ... njugations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_root
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo ... n_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo ... n_numerals

And why is there a huge number of studies done on Indo-european languages and little to nothing on the Hamito-semitic or Afrasian language family?
If somali is related to these langauages, why isn't there any evident link whatsoever?

Thanks.

[ToughGong]

JAMES; WHAT EXACTLY DOES THE TERM "SOMALID" MEAN
I SEE THAT IN A LOT OF FORUMS WHERE GENEOLAGY IS THE SUBJECT

I think it's an attempt to designate some sort of race of humanity around Somali features.
I did a Google search and the only hits I got were racist websites and Somali discussion forums.
Discussing "races" has always struck me as rather odd, we're all the same race, we're the Human race.

YEAH I KNOW MATE,IT'S A NARROW MINDED BEING THAT THINKS A MANS FEATURS OR GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATIONE ON THIS WORLD MAKES THEM SOMEHOW SUPERIOR

[Nomand]

lets all ask thr white guy where we come from

it amazes me how handicap this place is when all u fukers ask a white man about your own history and genes. go lick the white guy's arse im out of here

[James Dahl]

James Dahl, I remember sometime ago you wrote that the ancient somalis used a Libyco-berber script; which I have neither seen nor heard of. What proof do you have that somalis had a standard writing system before the 20th century, and how come no one has ever seen it or the fact that we are using a latin script today instead of a script that was derived from it like berber, punic and aramaic/arabic?

No I didn't claim as such, though I did say it was an interesting possibility.
There is unidentified writing on a lot of ancient grave markers in Somalia.

[James Dahl]

I paid for the study done in 2005 on Somali men in Denmark, organized the STR markers to the ysearch standard, and I ran the numbers against the haplogroup predictor.

I got very different results than those of people who published in 2006 and 2007.

Fully 80% or 161 of the 201 people tested are E1b1b, 3 people tested for E1b1a (the "Bantu" haplogroup) 5 people tested for J1 (the "Arab" haplogroup), 19 people tested for Haplogroup T (the "Southern Iran" haplogroup) and there was 1 G2a (Circassian, Mameluke from Egypt maybe?), 1 J2b (Arab from Syria?), 1 I1 (Englishman?) 2 I2a (Italian?) 1 R1a (could be Sardinian or Indian) 1 H (Indian)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

The results indicate, at least to me, that most of these people are probably from Mogadishu. The very high number of T haplotypes would indicate somewhere with a significant minority of Persian-descended people.

As such, I do not believe that you can say Somalis are "x percent this, X percent that" because this survey tells us little.

[James Dahl]

lets all ask thr white guy where we come from

it amazes me how handicap this place is when all u fukers ask a white man about your own history and genes. go lick the white guy's arse im out of here

I'm not trying to explain where Somalis come from, and besides this study can't do that anyways.
This field research is interesting in terms of having data to help with finding modal haplotypes some time down the road, but is useless for the broader questions of the origins of the clans, etc.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I paid for the study done in 2005 on Somali men in Denmark, organized the STR markers to the ysearch standard, and I ran the numbers against the haplogroup predictor.

I got very different results than those of people who published in 2006 and 2007.

Fully 80% or 161 of the 201 people tested are E1b1b, 3 people tested for E1b1a (the "Bantu" haplogroup) 5 people tested for J1 (the "Arab" haplogroup), 19 people tested for Haplogroup T (the "Southern Iran" haplogroup) and there was 1 G2a (Circassian, Mameluke from Egypt maybe?), 1 J2b (Arab from Syria?), 1 I1 (Englishman?) 2 I2a (Italian?) 1 R1a (could be Sardinian or Indian) 1 H (Indian)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

The results indicate, at least to me, that most of these people are probably from Mogadishu. The very high number of T haplotypes would indicate somewhere with a significant minority of Persian-descended people.

As such, I do not believe that you can say Somalis are "x percent this, X percent that" because this survey tells us little.

Interesting studies. The persian and indian genes makes me suspect those individuals may have been Barwaanis or reer xamar. No pure somali would carry those genes. The J1 may be another barwaani/reer xamar carrying that gene. But the J2b and G2a carrying individuals may be a northern somali, as there were ottoman troops stationed in the port of zeila (saylac), but idk.
The I1a, 12a, and R1a may just be anomolies and may be just people with a mixed race background. Apparently, some Konfurians used to marry italian soldiers .

[James Dahl]

That's what I was thinking as well, though who knows? I2 and I1 is found in Turkey as well, it could be an Ottoman remnmant, and R1a is found in India.

[James Dahl]

I have added the haplotypes from the Cruciani et al. 2007 study of East African E1b1b as well.

So few markers in these studies though, and no clan/tribe information at all, so it's not very useful for genealogy. It's interesting though.

[Voltage]

lets all ask thr white guy where we come from

it amazes me how handicap this place is when all u fukers ask a white man about your own history and genes. go lick the white guy's arse im out of here

I'm not trying to explain where Somalis come from, and besides this study can't do that anyways.
This field research is interesting in terms of having data to help with finding modal haplotypes some time down the road, but is useless for the broader questions of the origins of the clans, etc.

Poor James, so innocent.