A discussion about Somalia

[Ganjaweed]

Painting rosy pictures isn't the same thing as being a pragmatist sxb. Let Somaliland enjoy their peace and continue developing their economy and infrastructure even if its in the hopes of one day achieving recognition (which every sane person knows will not happen). The same thing with Puntland (minus the whole recognition thing). Create two or three more regional governments in south and central Somalia. Hold a grand conference inside the country, preferrably somewhere in Puntland or Somaliland and have something similar to a truth and reconciliation conference. Then gather the leadership of each of the regional administrations and have them reach an agreement on how to govern Somalia.

Easier said than done, I know but if only the foreign meddling could be stopped long enough for what I wrote above to occur.

None of what you said above will ever happen without peace, and that can only be bought through more fire power and deception. I can't see al shabab withstanding a combined military effort from S/L, P/L and the TFG troops. Holding a conference is all good and dandy but it all boils down to action and actually doing what you pledged to do. We cant have every region having it's own little government and then calling for unity. I personally don't see S/L ever being recognised and its current atttitude reminds me of "The wrath of Achilles" from the Iliad; all it is doing is sulking in a corner without taking advantage of somalias chaos and moving the capital to hargeisa. Puntlnads case has more to do with self-preservation because it doesn't want to get involved in the mess downstairs, and rightly so. But if you don't get your hands dirty nothing worthwhile will ever happen. I know that sharif tomorrow will be replaced by another incompetent soul, and another after him etc. The issue isn't to do with foreign meddling because iran suffers from foreign meddling as well but it's government still has control of the country. Somalis have shot themselves in the foot, all the foreigners are doing is stamping on it.

[sadeboi]

Painting rosy pictures isn't the same thing as being a pragmatist sxb. Let Somaliland enjoy their peace and continue developing their economy and infrastructure even if its in the hopes of one day achieving recognition (which every sane person knows will not happen). The same thing with Puntland (minus the whole recognition thing). Create two or three more regional governments in south and central Somalia. Hold a grand conference inside the country, preferrably somewhere in Puntland or Somaliland and have something similar to a truth and reconciliation conference. Then gather the leadership of each of the regional administrations and have them reach an agreement on how to govern Somalia.

Easier said than done, I know but if only the foreign meddling could be stopped long enough for what I wrote above to occur.

None of what you said above will ever happen without peace, and that can only be bought through more fire power and deception. I can't see al shabab withstanding a combined military effort from S/L, P/L and the TFG troops. Holding a conference is all good and dandy but it all boils down to action and actually doing what you pledged to do. We cant have every region having it's own little government and then calling for unity. I personally don't see S/L ever being recognised and its current atttitude reminds me of "The wrath of Achilles" from the Iliad; all it is doing is sulking in a corner without taking advantage of somalias chaos and moving the capital to hargeisa. Puntlnads case has more to do with self-preservation because it doesn't want to get involved in the mess downstairs, and rightly so. But if you don't get your hands dirty nothing worthwhile will ever happen. I know that sharif tomorrow will be replaced by another incompetent soul, and another after him etc. The issue isn't to do with foreign meddling because iran suffers from foreign meddling as well but it's government still has control of the country. Somalis have shot themselves in the foot, all the foreigners are doing is stamping on it.

[SahanGalbeed]

The beauty of the internet ,anybody can pose as anything The people of Somaliland do not want nor see any advantage in re-joining Somalia let alone "moving the capital to Hargeysa. ". That is a give away ,only southern somalis think in those terms ! If we the real Isaqs were given the Presidency , the Prime minister, Secretary of State ,Defense and Interior .. We still don't want it . It is about honesty ,acceptance ,accountabilty ,trust ...not opportunistic agendas and moving the capital to a new place . They can always try to infiltrate us ,it will never work

[AbdiWahab252]

Sahan,

Not really, some Southerners never understood why the Northerners came flocking en masse to Mogadishu in July 1960 to peddle a Union. One of them was my Awowe (AUN) who told the crazy Qaldans to stop and think about it and to enjoy their independence before making a union but the reality in the North at that time was that the Qaldans would have gone to war against each other days after independence: Issaq vs. Issaq vs. Harti Vs. Gadabursi etc. A vast number of Southerners voted against the Union during the referendum

If history is an indicator, when there is an Issaq president, there will be conflict and the only thing that prevents the Issaq from going to war against each other is the Wanlaweyne Boogeyman concocted to hide the ugly truth that is in plain sight: Qaldans who fought for the dictator.

So even if Somaliland received recognition tomorrow, it would be a matter of time before you lot go to war against each other. Habar Awals vs Garjaxis vs. Habar Jeclo but as long as you have that Wanlaweyn boogeyman, it keeps you all from slaughtering each other.

So be thankful you have that Wanlaweyn boogeyman, because without it, the fundamental base for the Somaliland ideology doesn't exist.

[AbdiWahab252]

Xoogsade,

This regionalization business is a load of crap. The country needs unity now rather than devolution. To form Bantustans that will ultimately be in conflict with each other is to invite a continuation of Ethiopian hegemony over Somalia.

Somalia right now needs a strong central government to consolidate power especially defense, monetary policy and development. I am not against the development of district councils or even governates but not a "President of a Bantustan"

I don't get why some would trade a lousy politician 1,000 kms away for a even lousier one 10 kms away.

[xoogSADE14]

AW

I too want to see a united Somalia with a strong central government but we both know that won't happen anytime soon. What I'm proposing are the first steps. We have to build trust amongst the many different clans and sub-clans.

The way I look at it, its easier to get five or six people (the regional heads) to agree on something than it is to get 575 (the current number of parliamentarians).

[AbdiWahab252]

Xoogsade,

The Parliament has to be scrapped along with the 4.5 formula. Its unwieldy and unfair.

The reality on the ground is that there is no united clan even subclan now. When it comes to power, chaos breaks out and every juufo feels they deserve something.

For the next 10 years, we need a strong administrative council, Executive and consultative body (mix of wadaads, civil society). After things are stabilized, then we can have parliament, states etc.

[galia2]

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[galia2]

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[AbdiWahab252]

Galia,

Stop insulting Xoogsade. He is one of the few people that i have known offline for over 2 decades. He is good peoples.

Btw, don't insult your elders.

[SahanGalbeed]

Ilaahow ceeb astur !

[galia2]

Galia,

Stop insulting Xoogsade. He is one of the few people that i have known offline for over 2 decades. He is good peoples.

Btw, don't insult your elders.

Understood adeer, Xoogsade please except my sincere apology.

[xoogSADE14]

AW

Yeah this 4.5 should be thrown out and individuals should attain positions based on their qualifications not because they come from qabiil x, y or z.

It would really be nice if there was a force strong enough that could take control of the south and govern it fairly without antagonizing our neighbors and the west. But in all honesty what are the chances that another grassroots organization like the ICU can come along unite all the clans for the common good?

Xoogsade please except my sincere apology.

I didn't even get a chance to read what you wrote but apology accepted nevertheless.

[Goljano Lion]

Sahan,

Not really, some Southerners never understood why the Northerners came flocking en masse to Mogadishu in July 1960 to peddle a Union. One of them was my Awowe (AUN) who told the crazy Qaldans to stop and think about it and to enjoy their independence before making a union but the reality in the North at that time was that the Qaldans would have gone to war against each other days after independence: Issaq vs. Issaq vs. Harti Vs. Gadabursi etc. A vast number of Southerners voted against the Union during the referendum

If history is an indicator, when there is an Issaq president, there will be conflict and the only thing that prevents the Issaq from going to war against each other is the Wanlaweyne Boogeyman concocted to hide the ugly truth that is in plain sight: Qaldans who fought for the dictator.

So even if Somaliland received recognition tomorrow, it would be a matter of time before you lot go to war against each other. Habar Awals vs Garjaxis vs. Habar Jeclo but as long as you have that Wanlaweyn boogeyman, it keeps you all from slaughtering each other.

So be thankful you have that Wanlaweyn boogeyman, because without it, the fundamental base for the Somaliland ideology doesn't exist.

I have never seen so many southerner Zoomalis
Losers blaming Somaliland for their failure to be able to self rule themselves
The fact that they have no desire to end wars and conflicts that has been going for the last 20 yrs and what is their excuse, we are fighting for the unity of somaliweyn when they cannot even ger along with eachother, does that make any sense, well I guess the always come up with their cheap excuses
there is a Somali saying Ninkii tiisa daryeelaa tu kale ku dara
how long this has been going on, you Mr. Abdiwahab you have the audacity to come up with “Qaldans would have gone to war against each other days after independence: Issaq vs. Issaq vs. Harti Vs. Gadabursi etc.” you are simpleton Hutu boi
how come we are not massacring each others if your logic holds
These savage southerners are totally incapable of accepting any responsibility for their own actions or inactions, so it must be the fault of those horrible qaldaans
It’s got to be SomalLanders fault that we southerners Zoomalis are failures
The problem with southerners Zoomalis savages is that everyone blames everyone else for their problems. You can all go to hell and kill each other for eternity but leave us alone waa halkii Sahana Motherphokers konfurians

[AbdiWahab252]

xoogSADE,

The ICU was a very heterogenous organization that would have taken control but eventually fallen out with each other. The only thing that united them was their hate for the TFG.

Too often in Somali politics, most groups are easily defined what they are against rather than what they are based on.

I do believe in qualifications being key over clan identity. Because at the end of the day, the only thing you require from government: security & rule of law. If you have those two things, you are free to prosper.


Somalis are full of ingenuity as shown how they prosper everywhere outside Somalia