hypothetical Question

[The_Patriot]

surrender I have never seen a somali family pay the Dowry on the spot and it seems like whether the Dowry is $1 million or a penny it seems like the wife never asks for it durin her lifetime as in the somali culture it has been twisted to mean asking for divorce or only divorcees are given Dowry.

If the man is saying no to the Dowry and has the means then it shows that he is stingy and is not a good candidate.

I would protect my daughter but I have to be sound and have an understanding of the outcomes before making decisions unwisely.

[Navy9]

ASC
Lets say you are a mother/father of 20 something girl,she is basically ready for marriage and a decent guy approaches you in the right way and asks you her hand.You invite him to your house to know more about his family background ,educational achievement and many more.After asking the required Questions,you come to know the guy is responsible enough to be your son in law.but there is some problem,He doesnt want to pay a single penny as dowry even though he is capable of everything.he claims he will cherish your daughter and stand by her in good or bad times.


As a parent would you allow him and consider that decision as appropriate? will you consider him a strong man or weak one?

I wouldnt have a problem if he can't pay the mehr upfront but definitely will insist that her deferred dowry paid if he divorces my daughter and I will make sure to specify that in the marriage contract

[surrender]

The_Patriot thats besides the point. we are talking what happens if a man refuses to pay the dowry, how much and how long is not the issue here.

just so you know. waxay soomalidu haystaan is not called relgion, but culture. we mix religion with culture and thats when all the confusion comes in.

[sexy-kitten]

Marka hypothetically speaking, the guy is a dhoore. He has the proper education, financially stable, and is respectful... but he doesn't want to pay dowry. Something is wrong with the big picture.

Why doesn't the bride know about this? If a guy ask for my daughter's hand hand, I'd want my daughter to fill him in on what we(parents) are expecting the man to do/have. I'd blame my dumb ass daughter if her man gets his ass whooped by her father for refusing dowry.

[Addoow]

Nobody said it has to be huge sums of money, but from memory, the hadith said the dowry must be something of value. You first have to understand the logic behind a dowry, its not to bankrupt the groom, nor is it to enrich the parents. Dowry is a nest egg for the bride and if a groom is unable to pay it up-front, the religion has made it easy for him and said he can pay if he ever divorces his wife, if he doesn't, he doesn't have to pay. But if he chooses to, he can pay up-front and pay to the bride herself or even her family, their choice. As long as its something with a value, it will do. Its not a cultural practice, its a religious requirement.

I think you are confusing dowry(which is mostly payed to the parents of the daughter) with meher.meher can be anything of value,Kitaab quraan,etc.
There exist a sick culture out there,where parents put pressure on thier daughter to bring them dahab iyo alaabo kale.
Somalis think that if the husband pays huge sum of money,it just means he loves her more but that is untrue and is just as unIslamic to demand a huge mahr based on the intention of checking the husbands loyalty.
It takes a strong man to have such views,If you are smart,educated and have a decent job,Dont ever worry about paying huge money,there are sisters out there in their 20s who doesnt like your money but your personality.Leave that culture to the fools and concentrate on what is best for you and your wife.

[Addoow]

surrender
Actually dowry is unislamic and parasitic way of making money.I would rather marry a person who likes me as a person than parasite who wants to enrich her family.there is something wrong in paying xxx sum of money in exchange for a girl,It is like a bussiness transaction.



Patriot

I have been approached many times to marry a certain girl and the father didnt want anything from me,gabartaan hadaad dhaqan karto aan kugu daro! sadly,I wasnt ready to settle at that time.
so,For the guys who are sick of this dhaqan,there is still a hope out there.so,keep your heads up.

[muslim-man]

Addow,

Meher is Arabic, dowry is English and they mean the same thing. Stop confusing what Somalis do, with what the religion tells you to do. You can't get out of paying meher/dowry even if you wanted to, because its a requirement. It doesn't have to be a substantial amount either. Just something with a value attached to it, plain & simple. I honestly don't understand what's so complicated about this? If you want her bad enough to marry, then you must be willing to take some responsibility and it starts with meher.

[Navy9]

Nobody said it has to be huge sums of money, but from memory, the hadith said the dowry must be something of value. You first have to understand the logic behind a dowry, its not to bankrupt the groom, nor is it to enrich the parents. Dowry is a nest egg for the bride and if a groom is unable to pay it up-front, the religion has made it easy for him and said he can pay if he ever divorces his wife, if he doesn't, he doesn't have to pay. But if he chooses to, he can pay up-front and pay to the bride herself or even her family, their choice. As long as its something with a value, it will do. Its not a cultural practice, its a religious requirement.

If he does not pay for the deferred dowry because he didnt divorce her as commonly done but died, does not that mean the husband died with a debt and thus his family are obliged to pay her?

[The_Patriot]

Nobody said it has to be huge sums of money, but from memory, the hadith said the dowry must be something of value. You first have to understand the logic behind a dowry, its not to bankrupt the groom, nor is it to enrich the parents. Dowry is a nest egg for the bride and if a groom is unable to pay it up-front, the religion has made it easy for him and said he can pay if he ever divorces his wife, if he doesn't, he doesn't have to pay. But if he chooses to, he can pay up-front and pay to the bride herself or even her family, their choice. As long as its something with a value, it will do. Its not a cultural practice, its a religious requirement.

If he does not pay for the deferred dowry because he didnt divorce her as commonly done but died, does not that mean the husband died with a debt and thus his family are obliged to pay her?

yap.

[muslim-man]

Navy9,

I honestly don't know. Good question though, would like to learn the answer for myself.

[surrender]

as i said before people are confused between religion and culture. what the culture tell us and Islam tell us is different. this is one of the reason why i hate the Somali culture sometimes. we attached to it so much, to a point where we mix it with religion.

Addow dowry is a must whether you agree with it or not. in the Quran it states:

"And give the women their dowries with a good heart..." [Noble Quran 4:4]
"...All others have been made lawful for you provided you seek (them in marriage) with your property..." [Noble Quran 4:24]

"There is no sin upon you if you divorce women before touching them or assigning for them a dowry. And give them provision - upon the wealthy what is appropriate and upon he of limited resources what is appropriate - a provision based on the best (the "known"), an obligation upon the doers of good." [Noble Quran 2:236]

"And if you wish to replace a wife with another and you have given one of them a heap of gold, do not take anything from it. Would you take it as a fraud and a clear sin?" [Noble Quran 4:20]

[Addoow]

surrender
I dont know what you have in mind,what i am talking about is not meher only,meher is islamic and it is not the discussion here.meher can be anything of value and depends on the status of the man the money/that thing of value belongs to the wife and not someon else.

what I am talking about the sick somali calture of paying money to the brides family which is not required by islam.As i said,there is no point of paying such money on xaliimo with a chip on her shoulder and considering the high divorce rate in the community.
So,if you want someone to pay 100 camel in exchange of your daughter,I will say THANK you and good luck.I will pass.

[kambuli]

Addow,

What dowry are we talking about horta Ma yarad baad ka hadlaysaa? Mese meher?

If the guy is a good person who has values, like diin, education, respect and work etc etc, and if the girl wants him, folks should not say no to him immediately and not say to him immediately...Study this guy more...Let the girl study him..

1. Her parents don't need to sell her daughter and I don't know why the "Yarad" should be important....The parents through their daughter need to find out what kind of a person he is..Is he the kind;

a) Somali says "Xuushada Xaarka Ugama kaco" So bakhayl that he does that even to his Feces...
b) Is he the kind that don't believe in Yarad and stuff.
c) Is he in a big student loan, that even though he may have a good job but he needs to pay his loan..
d) Is he the only one that is abroad for his family and he is taking care of a lare family..

She can find out by going out with him few times.....

[Addoow]

Kambuli

This isnt about being bakheyl,he just doesnt want to conform to this sick practice,People should know that meher and dowry are two different things in somali culture.The dowry money goes to the brides family laakin meher is strictly reserved for the wife,Meher can be anything of value and i am not against it.

Anyway,would you refuse this kind of proposal?

[Shirib]

Dowry is part of the religion and if he doesn't wanna pay it he can kick rocks nothin good about him he ain't marrying my daughter