Somali identity cards

[rosyspecs]

Prove yourself. I shall verify whether or not you are truthful or fraudulent:

1. What is your clan? Isaaq

2. What is your land of origin? ( don't need to really answer this)

3. What is your father's name? (see 1)

Isaaq is very general! Be more specific, I want a subclan and a land of origin.

I don't see how that would prove anything

I think I've already sucessfully proven my somalinimo

Stop with the negativity

[Walaashiis]

Somalia is the land of immigrant and I am the product of those immigrant.


It sounds even I was already there when you were born.

Adiga iyo Grandpakhalif should attend my madrassa I will teach Somali language iyo gabayo.

I am also an English teacher but I am not an Englishman, my English poetry is flawless, I speak romantically and more proficient than Shakespeare but I am no Englishman.

P.S Somalia is not a land of immigrants, its a land of natives. Immigrants are not welcome

History tells us that Somalis swept the people who lived in that land. Plus, according to the Somalis: the forthfathers of the most Somalis were Arab immigrants who intermarried local girls.

But quite honest you are playing a dangerous unprecidented game when you exclude some people from being Somalis. I wonder what you would made of the history of Mogadisho and Zeylac.


Question: who is more Somali, a person who was born in London into Somali parent or A Somali-Arab born in Somalia who never seen any other country?


I hope you would apologize by the end of this thread

[RuralMan08]

Surely Somalis emigrated there themselves too, your logic is flawed.


Walaashis you're more than welcome

Somalis have a centuries' old traditions, customs that relate them to the land. What do you have?

[RuralMan08]

.
I don't see how that would prove anything

I think I've already sucessfully proven my somalinimo

Stop with the negativity

You have claimed to be Isaaq, all I have required is in order for your identity to be established you must make a mention of your town or region of origin (ancestral homeland).

Where was your grandfather born?

P.S You haven't proved your Somalinimo at all. In fact you have given us more suspicion in regards to what you really are.

[RuralMan08]

History tells us that Somalis swept the people who lived in that land. Plus, according to the Somalis: the forthfathers of the most Somalis were Arab immigrants who intermarried local girls.

But quite honest you are playing a dangerous unprecidented game when you exclude some people from being Somalis. I wonder what you would made of the history of Mogadisho and Zeylac.


Question: who is more Somali, a person who was born in London into Somali parent or A Somali-Arab born in Somalia who never seen any other country?


I hope you would apologize by the end of this thread

Somalis sweeping others is a case of natives kicking out other natives. Somalis kicking out Oromos, Afar etc.

As I have mentioned previously with the consent of many Isaaq and Darood that I know personally. They have mentioned without due hesitation that the claim to Arab origin originated itself with the need and requirement to hold onto their Islamic heritage in the face of colonialism and anti Islamic sentiments in the Horn of Africa. It has no historical basis and even if it did then that was hundreds of years ago, they now have another identity that is NOT Arab.

In regards to your question, A Somali person born in London or the States or wherever is more Somali so long as he/she is born to a Somali father who has a tribe and clan affiliation back home. They could be half white/half Chinese/ self hating. It doesnt matter. The criteria has been met and thus they are Somali. A Somali Arab born in Somalia is like me born in the UAE, a foreigner who speaks the language of the natives but is yet a foreigner.

I shall not apologise for the truth.

[rosyspecs]

Surely Somalis emigrated there themselves too, your logic is flawed.


Walaashis you're more than welcome

Somalis have a centuries' old traditions, customs that relate them to the land. What do you have?

I am somali so that was pretty much a rhetorical question

.
I don't see how that would prove anything

I think I've already sucessfully proven my somalinimo

Stop with the negativity

You have claimed to be Isaaq, all I have required is in order for your identity to be established you must make a mention of your town or region of origin (ancestral homeland).

Where was your grandfather born?

P.S You haven't proved your Somalinimo at all. In fact you have given us more suspicion in regards to what you really are.

lol

I have mentioned my affiliation with a somali clan and hence have passed your litmus test for 'somalinimo':

Anyone who doesn't or cannot prove without duress their lineage to a known Somali clan paternally. No ratios, no percentages.

Any other details are unecessary

[RuralMan08]

I am somali so that was pretty much a rhetorical question

It wasn't rhetorical at all, in fact it was a gesture for you to concede and raise the white flag.

lol

I have mentioned my affiliation with a somali clan and hence have passed your litmus test for 'somalinimo':

You haven't mentioned anything more than what a layman could find on Wikipedia. Sorry but that was no litmus test, rather it was to draw you in. Madam you still have a question pending, refusing to answer is only to your detriment.

Any other details are unecessary

It really is necessary, clan identity is based on these questions that I have asked you, if the individual is unable to answer then there is a serious case for disproving their claims.

[grandpakhalif]

I agree with Rural Man, Somalis are pure and native foreigners

[RuralMan08]

I agree with Rural Man, Somalis are pure and native foreigners

Foreigners are a disease that needs to be eradicated.

[rosyspecs]

I am somali so that was pretty much a rhetorical question

It wasn't rhetorical at all, in fact it was a gesture for you to concede and raise the white flag.

lol

I have mentioned my affiliation with a somali clan and hence have passed your litmus test for 'somalinimo':

You haven't mentioned anything more than what a layman could find on Wikipedia. Sorry but that was no litmus test, rather it was to draw you in. Madam you still have a question pending, refusing to answer is only to your detriment.

Any other details are unecessary

It really is necessary, clan identity is based on these questions that I have asked you, if the individual is unable to answer then there is a serious case for disproving their claims.

OK well if you insist on denouncing my somalinimo so be it! not much I can do about that....

I wont be divulging personal info for the sake of a futile argument about my identity!

lets just agree to disagree shall we

[RuralMan08]

OK well if you insist on denouncing my somalinimo so be it! not much I can do about that....

I wont be divulging personal info for the sake of a futile argument about my identity!

lets just agree to disagree shall we

Hadaba mar dambe yaanan ku maqlin adigoo Soomali sheeganayaa naayaa Carabtooy

Translation (for you foreigner): Let me not catch you claiming to be Somali madam Arabia

Thank you for your concession, now lets keep it moving.

[rosyspecs]

History tells us that Somalis swept the people who lived in that land. Plus, according to the Somalis: the forthfathers of the most Somalis were Arab immigrants who intermarried local girls.

But quite honest you are playing a dangerous unprecidented game when you exclude some people from being Somalis. I wonder what you would made of the history of Mogadisho and Zeylac.


Question: who is more Somali, a person who was born in London into Somali parent or A Somali-Arab born in Somalia who never seen any other country?


I hope you would apologize by the end of this thread

Somalis sweeping others is a case of natives kicking out other natives. Somalis kicking out Oromos, Afar etc.

As I have mentioned previously with the consent of many Isaaq and Darood that I know personally. They have mentioned without due hesitation that the claim to Arab origin originated itself with the need and requirement to hold onto their Islamic heritage in the face of colonialism and anti Islamic sentiments in the Horn of Africa. It has no historical basis and even if it did then that was hundreds of years ago, they now have another identity that is NOT Arab.

In regards to your question, A Somali person born in London or the States or wherever is more Somali so long as he/she is born to a Somali father who has a tribe and clan affiliation back home. They could be half white/half Chinese/ self hating. It doesnt matter. The criteria has been met and thus they are Somali. A Somali Arab born in Somalia is like me born in the UAE, a foreigner who speaks the language of the natives but is yet a foreigner.

I shall not apologise for the truth.

What of the case of the European Jews that identify themselves as Jewish despite not passing the litmus test of 'jewishness' in having a jewish mother.
A person should be able to identify themselves as Somali if that's their roots despite not fiting in with the mould of the patriachal clan system. This is getting ridiculous and is purely a case of petty semantics.

I agree with Rural Man, Somalis are pure and native foreigners

Not sure what you mean by pure, because we obviously have interbred with other nations

[rosyspecs]

OK well if you insist on denouncing my somalinimo so be it! not much I can do about that....

I wont be divulging personal info for the sake of a futile argument about my identity!

lets just agree to disagree shall we

Hadaba mar dambe yaanan ku maqlin adigoo Soomali sheeganayaa naayaa Carabtooy

Translation (for you foreigner): Let me not catch you claiming to be Somali madam Arabia

Thank you for your concession, now lets keep it moving.

A concession it was not. But I end my discussion on this here

[Garaad_LQ]

I agree with Rural Man, Somalis are pure and native foreigners

Foreigners are a disease that needs to be eradicated.

WTF ....what's this ..... Nazi Germany
The irony of Qaxootis !

[RuralMan08]

What of the case of the European Jews that identify themselves as Jewish despite not passing the litmus test of 'jewishness' in having a jewish mother.
A person should be able to identify themselves as Somali if that's their roots despite not fiting in with the mould of the patriachal clan system. This is getting ridiculous and is purely a case of petty semantics.

I agree with Rural Man, Somalis are pure and native foreigners

Not sure what you mean by pure, because we obviously have interbred with other nations

First of all its quite a shame that you mention the tradition of European Jews. However me being fair and equitable I shall answer this and give you the main reason concerning "Jewishness". In reagards to Jewish history, the Children of Israel are a patriarchal society simply because the nation descends from the twelve sons of Prophet Yacquub (AS), thats No.1.

Secondly, European Jewry was always a fragmented society, they had no land, they were persecuted, always were a minority. The practice of regarding Jewishness through the mother was introduced by European Rabbis in the 19th century. This was because the only way the Jews saw fit to survive in a hostile environment was to marry off their women to big political figures in Europe, a case example of this is the wife of Tony Blair is herself jewish and many more, even Rageah Omaar's wife is of Jewish origin. Thus those children are seen to be halachich which means in Hebrew "fit" to have a Jewish identity. However, you bringing up this case and comparing it with Somali tribal politics is silly and futile. There is no corresponding similarities between us and the condition of European Jewry was completely in contrast with the Somalis.

In Somali and Arab culture, identity through the women is shambles. It would increase promiscuity and evil. Allah mentions in Surah al Ahzab: "And call them by their fathers' names".
In the Qur'anic Law, Walaashiis would never be considered Somali. Let us stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Thirdly in regards to us "obviously" interbreeding with other nations, can you give me an example of one nation we have interbred with?