Wonderful world of radical Islam

[ToughGong]

cutting off limbs aren’t found in the Qu’ran,

Which Quran is that then Caashay

[The_Emperior5]

cutting off limbs aren’t found in the Qu’ran,

Which Wuran is that then Caashay

[grandpakhalif]

We love sharia allahukbar we hate secular rats

[union]

Stonnings and cutting off limbs aren’t found in the Qu’ran

,


Surah maida

[5:38] The thief, male or female, you shall cut their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

وَالسَّارِقُ وَالسَّارِقَةُ فَاقْطَعُواْ أَيْدِيَهُمَا جَزَاء بِمَا كَسَبَا نَكَالاً مِّنَ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ

here is the meaning of "قطع":

v. cut, cut away, cut down, cut out, divide, exchange, intersect, ax, cross, cut up, split, stop, interrupt, cut off, tear, sever, cut across, halt, terminate, slit, prevent from, chop off, hinder from, lop, forbid, fell, traverse, hew, amputate

n. cutoff, severance, chopping off, felling, amputation, scission, dividing, segmentation, cessation, discontinuance, suspension, crossing

If you insist on quoting the Qu'ran, I suggest you also quote the verse before and the verse after, to make the context clear.

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall mark, cut, or cut-off their hands/means as a recompense for what they earned, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise. Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will relent on him. Truly, God is Forgiving, Merciful." [5:38-39]

The above verses are commonly translated to mean physical cutting off the thief's hand or hands, however whilst this understanding is a theoretical possibility, when all the information is reviewed it is only one of several possibilities, hence the above translation. Firstly, it should be noted that the verse makes clear whoever commits theft but repents after and makes amends, then this is acceptable to God, thus no punishment can be administered in this case. This of course would only apply to those who do this before they have to be tried and found guilty. To prove this, see the verse below in which being punished is contrasted to relenting:

There are some who await God's decree whether He will punish them or relent on them. God is All Knower, All Wise. [9:106]

And how repenting and making amends shows a true repentance, thus reinforces the notion that a true/sincere repentance is accepted:

And whoever repents and takes corrective action, certainly he turns toward God with true repentance. [25:71]

The Arabic word translated as "cut" in 5:38 is "iqtaa" and occurs 14 other times in the same verb form (QaTaA) in The Quran, and with the exception of 59:5 and possibly 69:46 all other occurrences mean the non-physical or metaphorical action of "cutting off relationship" or "ending" [2:27, 3:127, 6:45, 7:72, 8:7, 9:121, 13:25, 15:66, 22:15, 27:32, 29:29, 56:33].

Secondly, the Arabic word for "hands" (aydi) is often used in The Quran in a metaphorical/metonymical manner [some examples are 2:195, 2:237, 3:3, 3:73, 5:64, 6:93, 8:70, 9:29, 23:88, 28:47, 30:36, 38:45, 48:10, 48:24, 111:1], and often has a meaning of power/means. It should also be noted that this word is in the Arabic plural meaning 3 or more hands, whilst only two people are referenced: the male and the female thief. Some have commented that this plural usage causes problems for the common interpretation of hand cutting.

And the clearest example of mercy if shown by the Prophet Joseph, who detained the thief to compensate for his loss. You don't see any limbs going off, do you?

They said, "By God, you know we did not come to cause corruption in the land, and we are no thieves!"
He said, "What shall be its recompense, if you are not truthful?"
They said, "Its recompense is that he who has it in his bag, then he is its recompense. Like that do we recompense the wrongdoers."
[12:73-75]

[Shirib]

I don't know what people are trying to change, cutting off hands is from the Quran and is clearly understood

As for the repentance thing, the first thing a criminal says when you catch them is I am sorry.

And union I remember you saying that a vigilante group killed a robber in Kenya after they got him, and I think you said something along the lines of it was fitting for the worst of people. I find it odd, that you would justify that and say this is barbaric.

There is a hadith that the nabi saw said he would cut off Fatima's hand if she had stolen something.

[kadarre]

Union, I swear you are like a Zionist.

[union]

Union, I swear you are like a Zionist.

What do you mean?

[union]

I don't know what people are trying to change, cutting off hands is from the Quran and is clearly understood

As for the repentance thing, the first thing a criminal says when you catch them is I am sorry.

And union I remember you saying that a vigilante group killed a robber in Kenya after they got him, and I think you said something along the lines of it was fitting for the worst of people. I find it odd, that you would justify that and say this is barbaric.

There is a hadith that the nabi saw said he would cut off Fatima's hand if she had stolen something.

The Qu’ran is up for interputation, and as the quotations I provide show the argument for a non-draconian punishment is very strong. Considering there’s only one ayah in the entire Qu’ran mentioning that punishment and it uses languages that can be interrupted several different ways. I doubt the Prophet Muhammad would have approved of a vigilante boys chopping of the limbs of people and parading the pictures online. That’s gory , sadistic, and just distasteful.

And as for what I may have said, I don't like thieves and I sometimes wish for them to be punished in the most severe way...but that doesn't mean I don't support a fair justice system where there isn't cruel and unusual punishment.

[grandpakhalif]

I don't know what people are trying to change, cutting off hands is from the Quran and is clearly understood

As for the repentance thing, the first thing a criminal says when you catch them is I am sorry.

And union I remember you saying that a vigilante group killed a robber in Kenya after they got him, and I think you said something along the lines of it was fitting for the worst of people. I find it odd, that you would justify that and say this is barbaric.

There is a hadith that the nabi saw said he would cut off Fatima's hand if she had stolen something.

The Qu’ran is up for interputation, and as the quotations I provide show the argument for a non-draconian punishment is very strong. Considering there’s only one ayah in the entire Qu’ran mentioning that punishment and it uses languages that can be interrupted several different ways. I doubt the Prophet Muhammad would have approved of a vigilante boys chopping of the limbs of people and parading the pictures online. That’s gory , sadistic, and just distasteful.

No i t's not up for interpretation the Quran is a clear book with guidance an all, there are no riddles, our scholars have agreed that thief hand must be cut off unless he was forced to steal under special circumstances, such as poverty.

[union]

^

How's it clear when many previous mentions of "cutting" and "hand", as used in that ayah supposedly justifying limb amputation, have been metaphorical?

[grandpakhalif]

^

How's it clear when many previous mentions of "cutting" and "hand", as used in that ayah supposedly justifying limb amputation, have been metaphorical?

can you give us some examples of so called 'metaphorical' ayats

[greenday]

No i t's not up for interpretation the Quran is a clear book with guidance an all, there are no riddles, our scholars have agreed that thief hand must be cut off unless he was forced to steal under special circumstances, such as poverty.

Most people dont steal for fun, the people in Somalia are poor so they do have a reason. We know that Allah is forgiving.

Alshabab are cutting of hands for their own agenda.

[union]

^

How's it clear when many previous mentions of "cutting" and "hand", as used in that ayah supposedly justifying limb amputation, have been metaphorical?

can you give us some examples of so called 'metaphorical' ayats

The Arabic word translated as "cut" in 5:38 is "iqtaa" and occurs 14 other times in the same verb form (QaTaA) in The Quran, and with the exception of 59:5 and possibly 69:46 all other occurrences mean the non-physical or metaphorical action of "cutting off relationship" or "ending" [2:27, 3:127, 6:45, 7:72, 8:7, 9:121, 13:25, 15:66, 22:15, 27:32, 29:29, 56:33].

Secondly, the Arabic word for "hands" (aydi) is often used in The Quran in a metaphorical/metonymical manner [some examples are 2:195, 2:237, 3:3, 3:73, 5:64, 6:93, 8:70, 9:29, 23:88, 28:47, 30:36, 38:45, 48:10, 48:24, 111:1], and often has a meaning of power/means.

[ToughGong]

^

How's it clear when many previous mentions of "cutting" and "hand", as used in that ayah supposedly justifying limb amputation, have been metaphorical?

can you give us some examples of so called 'metaphorical' ayats

How do you cut a hand "Metaphoricaly" though

[grandpakhalif]

Union you are actually directly furthering my argument, Allah SWT uses the word literally in the aforementioned ayaat about the thief, and in other circumstances uses a dfferent grammatical metaphoric word for the same word would make sense 'cutting off relationship'. This is common sense yo ucan't literally cut a relationship