Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, King among men

[union]

Ataturk was the the last one who destroyed Muslim caliphate and was actually the worst disaster that happened to Muslims worldwide.

The caliphate destroyed itself by entering into the European war, on the losing side to make it worse. The Turkish National Movement lead by the great Ataturk not only ridded the Turkish people of an incompetent hereditary caliph, but also opposed the partitioning of Anatolian lands by the victors. The Ottoman Empire had become the "sick man of Europe" and it was time to close that chapter of Turkish history and move on.

[union]

The Khimaar was one part of his many modernisation/westernisation programs, men also wore hats instead of the fez. His achievements greatly outweigh his faults. Turkey will lift the veil ban sooner or later.

Whats specifically did he achieve ?

I mean the dismemeberement of the ottoman empire ?

with credits to the war in Galipoli?

I mean Turkey was modern in all retro respect.

Today its poor and heavily relies on aid from the Brittons woods institutions.

Turkey has a trillion dollar economy. How is it poor?

[IRONm@N]

Do you know that Ataturk was a member of secular Young Turks party educated in the West, and they were trying to dismantle the Ottamans from the inside and were fighting for power for years secretly underground, and when the Ottomans were defeated in the war with Russia and British and other Europe coalition, he took over. If he could just stop at that it would be okay, but he put Turkey on a 180 degree rapid turn to secularism.

[The_Patriot]

The Khimaar was one part of his many modernisation/westernisation programs, men also wore hats instead of the fez. His achievements greatly outweigh his faults. Turkey will lift the veil ban sooner or later.

Whats specifically did he achieve ?

I mean the dismemeberement of the ottoman empire ?

with credits to the war in Galipoli?

I mean Turkey was modern in all retro respect.

Today its poor and heavily relies on aid from the Brittons woods institutions.

Turkey has a trillion dollar economy. How is it poor?

maybe you came with a banana boat from Africa but Turkey is poor and relys on donor and this is not supposed to be of a country that once ruled over 1/2 of the muslim world.

[union]

Do you know that Ataturk was a member of secular Young Turks party educated in the West, and they were trying to dismantle the Ottamans from the inside and were fighting for power for years secretly underground, and when the Ottomans were defeated in the war with Russia and British and other Europe coalition, he took over. If he could just stop at that it would be okay, but he put Turkey on a 180 degree rapid turn to secularism.

The Ottoman Empire was a failure. The Arabs were rebelling against it, it was losing wars and making countless political blunders, less than 10% of the population was literate, it had failed to industrialize, women were discriminated against, etc. And it's not like the Caliph was a great Islamic leader, as it is known that the majority of them were illegitimate rulers who came to power through violence and kept large harems of kidnapped slave girls for sex while their realm starved. The Ottoman Empire of the Suliyman the Magnificent is not the same as the one removed by Ataturk.

[union]

The myth:

maybe you came with a banana boat from Africa but Turkey is poor and relys on donor and this is not supposed to be of a country that once ruled over 1/2 of the muslim world.

The reality:

The economy of Turkey is largely developed. The country is among the world's leading producers of agricultural products; textiles; motor vehicles, ships and other transportation equipment; construction materials; consumer electronics and home appliances. In recent years, Turkey had a rapidly growing private sector, yet the state still plays a major role in industry, banking, transport, and communications.

Turkey has the world's 15th largest GDP-PPP[2] and 17th largest Nominal GDP.[8] The country is a founding member of the OECD (1961) and the G-20 major economies (1999). Since December 31, 1995, Turkey is also a part of the EU Customs Union. Mean wages were $8.71 per manhour in 2009.

The World Bank classifies Turkey as an upper-middle income country in terms of the country's per capita GDP in 2007.[15] According to a survey by Forbes magazine, Istanbul, Turkey's financial capital, had a total of 28 billionaires as of March 2010 , ranking 4th in the world behind Moscow (50 billionaires), New York City (60 billionaires) and London (32 billionaires).[16]

Are you ever going to accept facts or will you always insist on talking out of your ass?

[The_Patriot]

The myth:

maybe you came with a banana boat from Africa but Turkey is poor and relys on donor and this is not supposed to be of a country that once ruled over 1/2 of the muslim world.

The reality:

The economy of Turkey is largely developed. The country is among the world's leading producers of agricultural products; textiles; motor vehicles, ships and other transportation equipment; construction materials; consumer electronics and home appliances. In recent years, Turkey had a rapidly growing private sector, yet the state still plays a major role in industry, banking, transport, and communications.

Turkey has the world's 15th largest GDP-PPP[2] and 17th largest Nominal GDP.[8] The country is a founding member of the OECD (1961) and the G-20 major economies (1999). Since December 31, 1995, Turkey is also a part of the EU Customs Union. Mean wages were $8.71 per manhour in 2009.

The World Bank classifies Turkey as an upper-middle income country in terms of the country's per capita GDP in 2007.[15] According to a survey by Forbes magazine, Istanbul, Turkey's financial capital, had a total of 28 billionaires as of March 2010 , ranking 4th in the world behind Moscow (50 billionaires), New York City (60 billionaires) and London (32 billionaires).[16]

Are you ever going to accept facts or will you always insist on talking out of your ass?

still poor in my standards maybe super rich in your standards as you compare it with Somalia.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Turkey's economy today is in ascendance. Also I do agree the ottoman empire was pretty much in decline and disarray by the 19th and 20th centuries and needed drastic reform. He did modernise his country but to what cost? He could have achieved all his aims, all his goals and still remained a steadfast muslim. But he chose to follow the example of the non-believers rather than set one and be an example to follow. He did good things for his country but he did terrible things to the Ummah.

[union]

The myth:

maybe you came with a banana boat from Africa but Turkey is poor and relys on donor and this is not supposed to be of a country that once ruled over 1/2 of the muslim world.

The reality:

The economy of Turkey is largely developed. The country is among the world's leading producers of agricultural products; textiles; motor vehicles, ships and other transportation equipment; construction materials; consumer electronics and home appliances. In recent years, Turkey had a rapidly growing private sector, yet the state still plays a major role in industry, banking, transport, and communications.

Turkey has the world's 15th largest GDP-PPP[2] and 17th largest Nominal GDP.[8] The country is a founding member of the OECD (1961) and the G-20 major economies (1999). Since December 31, 1995, Turkey is also a part of the EU Customs Union. Mean wages were $8.71 per manhour in 2009.

The World Bank classifies Turkey as an upper-middle income country in terms of the country's per capita GDP in 2007.[15] According to a survey by Forbes magazine, Istanbul, Turkey's financial capital, had a total of 28 billionaires as of March 2010 , ranking 4th in the world behind Moscow (50 billionaires), New York City (60 billionaires) and London (32 billionaires).[16]

Are you ever going to accept facts or will you always insist on talking out of your ass?

still poor in my standards maybe super rich in your standards as you compare it with Somalia.

Of course Patriot, everyone knows you're a wealthy baron who can't be bothered to do any sort of research before making ignorant and easily refuted statements.

[The_Patriot]

Of course Patriot, everyone knows you're a wealthy baron who can't be bothered to do any sort of research before making ignorant and easily refuted statements.

IC

Just to ask you one question if they are wealthy why do they borrow loans that are attached to high interest rate?
once you borrow a loan you become a servitude.

look at the Chinese their economy is better and growing and are not attached to strings attached loans that would have effects on its economy in the future.

Buying a house on mortgage is not the same as buying it on cash.
If Turks were that wealthy they wouldnt leave for Germany to search for work do you know the population of Turks in Germany or other states in Europe? ps exclude the kurds if you wish so.

[union]

Turkey's economy today is in ascendance. Also I do agree the ottoman empire was pretty much in decline and disarray by the 19th and 20th centuries and needed drastic reform. He did modernise his country but to what cost? He could have achieved all his aims, all his goals and still remained a steadfast muslim. But he chose to follow the example of the non-believers rather than set one and be an example to follow. He did good things for his country but he did terrible things to the Ummah.

The religious fringe is irrational and nearly impossible to please. You see it in Afghanistan with the Taliban, in Somalia with Al Shabab, in Saudi Arabia with the wahabists. The only way to move a nation forward is to denounce the radicals and move forward with modernizing the nation with the support of the sensible majority. Bringing about modernization with the support of the radically religious is impossible because they respond with retarded statements like "what does it mater if the country is poor, I'm going to heaven anyway". MSB realized that and that is why he hung those meddling sheiks and made it clear to the religious establishment that they needed to keep out of politics.

[union]

Of course Patriot, everyone knows you're a wealthy baron who can't be bothered to do any sort of research before making ignorant and easily refuted statements.

IC

Just to ask you one question if they are wealthy why do they borrow loans that are attached to high interest rate?
once you borrow a loan you become a servitude.

look at the Chinese their economy is better and growing and are not attached to strings attached loans that would have effects on its economy in the future.

Buying a house on mortgage is not the same as buying it on cash.
If Turks were that wealthy they wouldnt leave for Germany to search for work do you know the population of Turks in Germany or other states in Europe? ps exclude the kurds if you wish so.

Americans take out high interest loans, Americans go abroad to find work. Does that mean America is poor too?
Germans immigrated to the United States, Germany has debt- is is poor too?

Japan has a debt several times larger than its GDP-is it poor?

See, you're logic makes no sense.

[The_Patriot]

Of course Patriot, everyone knows you're a wealthy baron who can't be bothered to do any sort of research before making ignorant and easily refuted statements.

IC

Just to ask you one question if they are wealthy why do they borrow loans that are attached to high interest rate?
once you borrow a loan you become a servitude.

look at the Chinese their economy is better and growing and are not attached to strings attached loans that would have effects on its economy in the future.

Buying a house on mortgage is not the same as buying it on cash.
If Turks were that wealthy they wouldnt leave for Germany to search for work do you know the population of Turks in Germany or other states in Europe? ps exclude the kurds if you wish so.

Americans take out high interest loans, Americans go abroad to find work. Does that mean America is poor too?
Germans immigrated to the United States, Germany has debt- is is poor too?

Japan has a debt several times larger than its GDP-is it poor?

See, you're logic makes no sense.

Millions left their country and did a million Americans leave the USA?

Turkey was a powerhouse for close to 6 centuries today it is nothing more of a state in drugs.

They are controlled as they took out loans and will jump higher to appease its creditors but this cannot be compared to US who agree on their own terms.

Come on there is nothing to be proud of in modern day today I mean if back in the days its economy was larger than combination of all Western Europe states how proud is it to be when it cannot be compared to day with one Western European state.

[union]

^

Patriot, it's pretty much universally agreed upon that the Ottoman Empire was in decline and that the revolution lead by Ataturk revitalized the country and put it on track towards the great economic leaps it's making today. Of course you're a self anointed historian and economist who operates on fantasy and facts you pull out of your arse, so quite frankly there's not much point in debating this with you. You are dismissed from the thread.

[The_Patriot]

^

Patriot, it's pretty much universally agreed upon that the Ottoman Empire was in decline and that the revolution lead by Ataturk revitalized the country and put it on track towards the great economic leaps it's making today. Of course you're a self anointed historian and economist who operates on fantasy and facts you pull out of your arse, so quite frankly there's not much point in debating this with you. You are dismissed from the thread.

No I just burst your bubble thats it.

I mean if you knew how wealthy and influential turkey was for the past 6 centuries then you compare it to being a small state that heavily relies on debt.

I mean only a lunatic would brag about this decadence.