SomaliNet Forums

seemeyer wrote:It's an unwritten agreement

walee, dee bal waayahee soo sheeg the list of demands the treaty includes....

^
Like I said it's unwritten laakiin the general gist of the undestanding we reached was

1 Somalilanders shall not take part in any Puntland bashing by a third party
2 Puntland shall do likewise
3 Any horumar newst posted by either section shall recieve the from their PL/SL compatriod

This unwritten agreement is very unstable and could crumble at any time though

Based wrote:

Saraxnow wrote:

Based wrote:

You call them criminals, I call them heroes.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective though. I'll be honest with you, I genuinely do not blame you for hating the regime or bringing it up every other post. It's whatever.

As for the SL section, I post wherever I want. If your little mod wants to delete my posts, go for it. Censorship waa lagaaga horeeyey

Well sorry your heroes were cleaned and taken out with the help of my heroes. No hard feelings.

Hey, I don't mention faqash as often as you worry. The last time I did, I was explaining to some confused folks how it doesnt refer to single clan but the regime . Bet you didnt have a clue.

As for your posting anything and whatever, like I said, I am not surprised However, there isnt a regional mod here but a non-Sler who shares the same decency some of us have, did the job.

I didn't know Mengistu was one of your heroes You don't honestly believe the regime fell because of the SNM, do you? The SNM were little more than bait, the whole waqooyi war being a diversion while the Hawiye did the real fighting down south. Let's not act as if city after city fell to the SNM who were confined to the triangle We got overextended, happens to the best of em (Rome says hi). At least we had our time at the top, innit? The last 21 years have vindicated us and our methods, if we're being honest. Post-Siad Somalia isn't exactly the land of democracy and freedom the rebels promised, is it?

As for the term faqash, the word is actually quite flattering. Something about the sound of boots marching, yeah? If that's the term you use to describe the clan (sorry, the pc term is "regime"), waabad na faanisay bro.

btw, I don't get how you're surprised about me posting wherever I want. What's so surprising about that?

I really would hate for this to be a recurring thing where we post and counter-post until this reaches 20 pages, so I'm out.

You have comprehension or reading difficulties. Either one you prefer but you don't seem to understand mostly. I said

Well sorry your heroes were cleaned and taken out with the help of my heroes.

.

So, of course the SNM did its part of the job cleansing any faqash remains from the whole of Somaliland, east to west... your outdated lie 'confined to the triangle' comes across as silly.

It was your faqash that did eventually make friends with Mengistu, why hate him now? Did you not also,just a few years ago, allow Ethiopia to invade Somalia? You both fit right well with each other.

Whatever the case, the SNM (essentially unionist mind you) paved the path to democracy in Sl and the same could have been done in Somalia if the clans living there wanted to put the effort in.

Sure you find the term faqash flattering, you dont have a problem with genocide which is what happened. If you believe it refers to your clan then, feel free to love yourself.

btw, I don't get how you're surprised about me posting wherever I want. What's so surprising about that?

I said I was surprised,really?... kani meel kale ayuu hadalku ka gala.

The main reason why I left the last ''discussion'' was because of this consistent misconstruing of my posts. Leave it there.

Saraxnow wrote:Its Emperior isaga dhex wal walaaqda.

Based wrote: :

Faqash boy ha isku buuqin we promise the SNM have laid down their arms





This news is fake

^

when did this treaty took place....

Sometime back about three months ago dee
Xageed ku maqneyd

on behalf of us yaa inoo saxeexay plz dont say suldaanka

Sultan Emperior didn't tell me about any treaty with the Dhabayacos

shit is some one trying to make fake deals with other Clans and The Sultan was not aware oft his


i will notify the Sultan about this issue Asap

Gacanyare

Saraxnow wrote: You have comprehension or reading difficulties. Either one you prefer but you don't seem to understand mostly. I said

Well sorry your heroes were cleaned and taken out with the help of my heroes.

.

So, of course the SNM did its part of the job cleansing any faqash remains from the whole of Somaliland, east to west... your outdated lie 'confined to the triangle' comes across as silly.

It was your faqash that did eventually make friends with Mengistu, why hate him now? Did you not also,just a few years ago, allow Ethiopia to invade Somalia? You both fit right well with each other.

Whatever the case, the SNM (essentially unionist mind you) paved the path to democracy in Sl and the same could have been done in Somalia if the clans living there wanted to put the effort in.

Sure you find the term faqash flattering, you dont have a problem with genocide which is what happened. If you believe it refers to your clan then, feel free to love yourself.

I said I was surprised,really?... kani meel kale ayuu hadalku ka gala.

The main reason why I left the last ''discussion'' was because of this consistent misconstruing of my posts. Leave it there.

Like I said in the other thread, the SNM were a means to an end for some other people. I understand the concept of clan solidarity will never let you admit the truth, so there's no reason to rehash that discussion.

As for the Ethiopian thing, I think you might be confusing me with reer Bari. My politics are quite simple. I detest Ethiopians and everything to do with that God forsaken Aids ridden nation. I don't see how I (I suppose you mean my clan) invited (a euphemism for invasion I suppose) Ethiopians into Somalia. You can blame Abdullahi Yusuf (and according to the Somali concept of collective responsibility, Majerteen) and Geedi (Abgaal) for that one.

As for the surprising bit, you wrote "As for your posting anything and whatever, like I said, I am not surprised". Why would anybody be surprised to begin with?

btw lol @ genocide. You've really taken the persecution complex to new heights! You still have yet to admit to SNM's responsibility for any collateral damage. If you decide to turn a city into an urban war zone on behalf of foreign powers, you are partially responsible for any collateral damage. You could possibly argue that the response was heavy handed or that it was somewhat disproportionate, but it doesn't change the fact that the hostilities were initiated by the SNM. I don't see how this is hard to understand

based sxb get over it neither snm nor siyaad bare exist today

Based wrote:

Saraxnow wrote: You have comprehension or reading difficulties. Either one you prefer but you don't seem to understand mostly. I said

Well sorry your heroes were cleaned and taken out with the help of my heroes.

.

So, of course the SNM did its part of the job cleansing any faqash remains from the whole of Somaliland, east to west... your outdated lie 'confined to the triangle' comes across as silly.

It was your faqash that did eventually make friends with Mengistu, why hate him now? Did you not also,just a few years ago, allow Ethiopia to invade Somalia? You both fit right well with each other.

Whatever the case, the SNM (essentially unionist mind you) paved the path to democracy in Sl and the same could have been done in Somalia if the clans living there wanted to put the effort in.

Sure you find the term faqash flattering, you dont have a problem with genocide which is what happened. If you believe it refers to your clan then, feel free to love yourself.

I said I was surprised,really?... kani meel kale ayuu hadalku ka gala.

The main reason why I left the last ''discussion'' was because of this consistent misconstruing of my posts. Leave it there.

Like I said in the other thread, the SNM were a means to an end for some other people. I understand the concept of clan solidarity will never let you admit the truth, so there's no reason to rehash that discussion.

As for the Ethiopian thing, I think you might be confusing me with reer Bari. My politics are quite simple. I detest Ethiopians and everything to do with that God forsaken Aids ridden nation. I don't see how I (I suppose you mean my clan) invited (a euphemism for invasion I suppose) Ethiopians into Somalia. You can blame Abdullahi Yusuf (and according to the Somali concept of collective responsibility, Majerteen) and Geedi (Abgaal) for that one.

As for the surprising bit, you wrote "As for your posting anything and whatever, like I said, I am not surprised". Why would anybody be surprised to begin with?

btw lol @ genocide. You've really taken the persecution complex to new heights! You still have yet to admit to SNM's responsibility for any collateral damage. If you decide to turn a city into an urban war zone on behalf of foreign powers, you are partially responsible for any collateral damage. You could possibly argue that the response was heavy handed or that it was somewhat disproportionate, but it doesn't change the fact that the hostilities were initiated by the SNM. I don't see how this is hard to understand

Indiscriminate shelling, torture, systematic executions of clan members,rounding up and shooting of civilians en masse, : 'collateral damage' my ass.

Mengistu did resume relations with your regime, since you detest Ethiopians that much, you should then be able to atleast dislike the regime for that reason alone

You keep saying that the SNM was purely working on behalf of foreign powers as if there were no precedence to the war whatsoever. People across the country, randomly started to hate the MSB/regime is it? Ask yourself that. Both parties happened to have an interest in getting rid of Barre at the right time, nothing more nothing less.

''Somewhat disproportionate'' LOL. No comment.

One would be surprised at the sheer edeb darnida at coming and insulting a clan in a section where they often read

So, just because you see that hostilities were 'initiated' by the SNM you go on to become the first country to aerial bomb using the city's own airport without making distinction between civilian/rebel and knowing full well there will more than 'a few dead' civilians through this? And then continue the same process with planes bombing fleeing refugees? Poisoning of wells? This is just the tip of the ice-berg.The government that was supposedly given the responsibility of protecting its own people used the rebel fighters as an excuse then as some of its supporters do today. All so it can save one man and keep him on the chair..Gadafi part two.



This is my last response, I do not have the stomach for further conversing with a self-proclaimed supporter of faqash-crimes.

@ Hargaysaay, ma waxan oo kale baad doonayasa inad lasoo ag safatid, ma wax ba kaa si ah inadeer?

Saraxnow wrote: Indiscriminate shelling, torture, systematic executions of clan members,rounding up and shooting of civilians en masse, : 'collateral damage' my ass.

Mengistu did resume relations with your regime, since you detest Ethiopians that much, you should then be able to atleast dislike the regime for that reason alone

You keep saying that the SNM was purely working on behalf of foreign powers as if there were no precedence to the war whatsoever. People across the country, randomly started to hate the MSB/regime is it? Ask yourself that. Both parties happened to have an interest in getting rid of Barre at the right time, nothing more nothing less.

''Somewhat disproportionate'' LOL. No comment.

One would be surprised at the sheer edeb darnida at coming and insulting a clan in a section where they often read

So, just because you see that hostilities were 'initiated' by the SNM you go on to become the first country to aerial bomb using the city's own airport without making distinction between civilian/rebel and knowing full well there will more than 'a few dead' civilians through this? And then continue the same process with planes bombing fleeing refugees? Poisoning of wells? This is just the tip of the ice-berg.The government that was supposedly given the responsibility of protecting its own people used the rebel fighters as an excuse then as some of its supporters do today. All so it can save one man and keep him on the chair..Gadafi part two.



This is my last response, I do not have the stomach for further conversing with a self-proclaimed supporter of faqash-crimes.

You've completely misunderstood my position. I'm not blind to the fact that terrible events occurred in Somalia. When I say collateral damage (a term that carries negative connotations these days) I am not trying downplay what happened. It could be argued that the term is a euphemism that's used to desensitize reality, but it's still a term that makes a distinction between cold blooded murder and inadvertent deaths that occur in war (a distinction that's pretty clear when you look at the difference between Hargeisa '88 and the Jazeera beach massacre '89). Make no mistake, I do not condone the use of warplanes (any heavy weaponry tbh) that cannot distinguish between military targets and civilians. Using these types of armaments in densely populated urban zones will invariably lead to large civilian casualties, as we've seen in countless warzones (Iraq comes to mind).

What I'm trying to get across is that both parties share responsibility when it comes to civilian casualties, the SNM for deciding to initiate hostilities in an urban zone and the government for responding so heavily without making an effort to distinguish between civilians and militants.

I am not an apologist for crimes committed by the government. I'm not blind to the fact that the government became increasingly repressive towards the end, a fact that I've openly stated many times. What I am against, however, is this narrative of painting one side as angels and the other side as devils without taking into account the possibility that the world isn't always black and white. Clan based rebellions raging across your country funded by your arch-enemy (while you're backing ethnic rebellions in their country) would make any government hostile towards rebels and (what they wrongfully or rightfully perceive to be) their sympathizers. This doesn't necessarily mean that I think they acted in the best manner, nor does it mean that the government had the right to begin targeting people on a clan basis. It's unfortunate that they chose to go down that route, a route that eventually led to their downfall. However, this does not absolve the clan rebels of their sins either. The SNM might have been fighting for their own goals, but they were also used to further the goals of others. No one would debate that Hamid Karzai genuinely hated the Taliban, but what sane man would argue he wasn't controlled from Washington? Although to be honest with you, out of all the clan rebels I think the SNM were the most reasonable when you take into account the nutters the USC turned out to be.

I'm not trying to convince you that the government was right, nor am I trying to convince you that the SNM were devils. All I'm saying is that at least for the events that took place in Hargeysa, the SNM bears some responsibility for civilian casualties because they decided to turn a peaceful city into an urban war zone, regardless of a disproportionate response from the other side. I think any objective observer would admit that the side that initiated hostilities in a densely populated urban zone shares some responsibility in the event of civilians being harmed.