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Based wrote:lol @ nostalgic Islam

Why not just become an atheist since Islam is clearly against all forms of innovation? Like I always say to my Christian friends, it's time you accept reason as your lord and savior

Because I don’t want to surrender the entire Islamic religious tradition, its glory and achievements and rich history to people whose entire existence I find offensive.

union wrote:Thanks Estarix and accident.


And what is up with that neutral face, tightrope? I thought we were friends?

WE'RE COOL
YOU JUST CAME AT AN INTERESTING TIME

Based; why are you trying to make people leave their religion?

The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

If you don't believe that the generation of the Prophet is worthy of emulation or isn't the best generation of mankind, then what's really the point? Why not become a "free thinker" and renounce Islam?

In my opinion, bid'ah is worse than outright kufr, since you would seek to change that which Allah has already made perfect and seek to destroy the principles upon which Islam were founded, while kufr is just kufr.

Based wrote:The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

If you don't believe that the generation of the Prophet is worthy of emulation or isn't the best generation of mankind, then what's really the point? Why not become a "free thinker" and renounce Islam?

In my opinion, bid'ah is worse than outright kufr, since you would seek to change that which Allah has already made perfect and seek to destroy the principles upon which Islam were founded, while kufr is just kufr.

Agree somewhat.

Based wrote:The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

If you don't believe that the generation of the Prophet is worthy of emulation or isn't the best generation of mankind, then what's really the point? Why not become a "free thinker" and renounce Islam?

In my opinion, bid'ah is worse than outright kufr, since you would seek to change that which Allah has already made perfect and seek to destroy the principles upon which Islam were founded, while kufr is just kufr.

I believe that it is foolish and impractical to try and replicate the 7th century in the 21st century by following “their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T”. But if you want to go pitch a Bedouin tent somewhere in Arabia and pretend to be millennia in the past, then that’s your choice. I’m sure no one would have a problem with the Islamic version of the Amish.

Unfortunately, your type aren’t simplify satisfied with being backward and ignorant themselves, they want to drag the entire world back to the 7th century with them, which simply won’t ever happen.

The overwhelming majority of the world’s Muslim population utterly rejects the obscurantist tendencies of your sect, thankfully. Islamic societies will continue to progress religiously, socially, and culturally with the rest of the civilized world. Whether you like it or not.

tightrope wrote:

union wrote:Thanks Estarix and accident.


And what is up with that neutral face, tightrope? I thought we were friends?

WE'RE COOL
YOU JUST CAME AT AN INTERESTING TIME

Doesn't the hero always come at an interesting time?

union wrote:

Based wrote:The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

If you don't believe that the generation of the Prophet is worthy of emulation or isn't the best generation of mankind, then what's really the point? Why not become a "free thinker" and renounce Islam?

In my opinion, bid'ah is worse than outright kufr, since you would seek to change that which Allah has already made perfect and seek to destroy the principles upon which Islam were founded, while kufr is just kufr.

I believe that it is foolish and impractical to try and replicate the 7th century in the 21st century by following “their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T”. But if you want to go pitch a Bedouin tent somewhere in Arabia and pretend to be millennia in the past, then that’s your choice. I’m sure no one would have a problem with the Islamic version of the Amish.

Unfortunately, your type aren’t simplify satisfied with being backward and ignorant themselves, they want to drag the entire world back to the 7th century with them, which simply won’t ever happen.

The overwhelming majority of the world’s Muslim population utterly rejects the obscurantist tendencies of your sect, thankfully. Islamic societies will continue to progress religiously, socially, and culturally with the rest of the civilized world. Whether you like it or not.

lol, you and I both know I'm not advocating for an Islamic counterpart to the Amish. Do you deny that the Qur'an states, "Today I have perfected your religion for you and chosen surrender [to your Lord]: Islam as your religion."? How can a faith "progress" religiously if the religion, as stated by the deity, is already perfect?

Do you deny that Islam claims to be relevant to all times, places, cultures, and peoples? Why would Allah send down universal laws in the 7th century and force people to abide by them if he did not mean for those laws to be enforced in the 21st century? Your statements seem to be a denial of your deity's omniscience

Did Allah not know what the 21st century was going to be like when he was revealing Islam to seventh century Arabs? When Allah and his Prophet decried the concept of Bid'ah, did that only apply to a specific time period? Should the laws and customs of Islam be abrogated over time despite the clear denunciation of innovation in Islam?

Based wrote:

union wrote:

Based wrote:The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

If you don't believe that the generation of the Prophet is worthy of emulation or isn't the best generation of mankind, then what's really the point? Why not become a "free thinker" and renounce Islam?

In my opinion, bid'ah is worse than outright kufr, since you would seek to change that which Allah has already made perfect and seek to destroy the principles upon which Islam were founded, while kufr is just kufr.

I believe that it is foolish and impractical to try and replicate the 7th century in the 21st century by following “their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T”. But if you want to go pitch a Bedouin tent somewhere in Arabia and pretend to be millennia in the past, then that’s your choice. I’m sure no one would have a problem with the Islamic version of the Amish.

Unfortunately, your type aren’t simplify satisfied with being backward and ignorant themselves, they want to drag the entire world back to the 7th century with them, which simply won’t ever happen.

The overwhelming majority of the world’s Muslim population utterly rejects the obscurantist tendencies of your sect, thankfully. Islamic societies will continue to progress religiously, socially, and culturally with the rest of the civilized world. Whether you like it or not.

lol, you and I both know I'm not advocating for an Islamic counterpart to the Amish. Do you deny that the Qur'an states, "Today I have perfected your religion for you and chosen surrender [to your Lord]: Islam as your religion."? How can a faith "progress" religiously if the religion, as stated by the deity, is already perfect?

Do you deny that Islam claims to be relevant to all times, places, cultures, and peoples? Why would Allah send down universal laws in the 7th century and force people to abide by them if he did not mean for those laws to be enforced in the 21st century? Your statements seem to be a denial of your deity's omniscience

Did Allah not know what the 21st century was going to be like when he was revealing Islam to seventh century Arabs? When Allah and his Prophet decried the concept of Bid'ah, did that only apply to a specific time period? Should the laws and customs of Islam be abrogated over time despite the clear denunciation of innovation in Islam?

Islam has always been an evolving religion. The Prophet Muahmamd (AS) himself was one of many reformists after Prophet Adam, and Islam has changed quite a bit since it was originally revealed.

Islam is not a backward religion where people need to constantly refer to a long gone age for enlightenment, but a faith whose eternal message remains relevant and in touch with contemporary society. And in contemporary society, limb amputations, ritualistic stoning, polygamy, expansionist jihad, etc etc have no place. Islam is a religion much greater than these dark practices, but unfortunately some ignorant people cling to these as if the entire religion was pillared upon them.

That's simply not true, saxiib. Islam is not meant to "evolve" or change. The Qur'an unequivocally states that Islam has been perfected, the Sunnah unequivocally denounces innovations in the faith (bid'ah), and Islam unequivocally claims to be a faith that is for all times and places. Your claims seem to insinuate that mortal men have the ability/authority to arbitrarily abrogate parts of Islam they deem to be incompatible with the "modern age", when the single most important source of authority in Islam condemns innovations and proclaims the religion perfected and applicable to all peoples and all time. This leads me to believe that you are implying that there are limitations in your God's omniscience since he could not apparently foresee a change in social mores and attitudes when he proclaimed Islam's perfection in the seventh century

We are not going back to the 7th century. Period.

You don't believe in Allah's omniscience.

edit-You know you're doing something right when you're accused of being an atheist and a religious fanatic in the same thread

Islam according to Based:

The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

And apparently anyone who disagrees rejects "Allah's omniscience".

union wrote:Islam according to Based:

The fundamental goal of Islam is to live life exactly as the Prophet and his companions did, following their lifestyles, habits, laws, customs, and practices to the T.

And apparently anyone who disagrees rejects "Allah's omniscience".

It was unfortunate wording, I'll give you that, but you got what I was trying to get across.

You still haven't answered my questions, though. Let's not hide behind smilies

Based wrote:That's simply not true, saxiib. Islam is not meant to "evolve" or change. The Qur'an unequivocally states that Islam has been perfected, the Sunnah unequivocally denounces innovations in the faith (bid'ah), and Islam unequivocally claims to be a faith that is for all times and places. Your claims seem to insinuate that mortal men have the ability/authority to arbitrarily abrogate parts of Islam they deem to be incompatible with the "modern age", when the single most important source of authority in Islam condemns innovations and proclaims the religion perfected and applicable to all peoples and all time. This leads me to believe that you are implying that there are limitations in your God's omniscience since he could not apparently foresee a change in social mores and attitudes when he proclaimed Islam's perfection in the seventh century

The man your talking to believes in the evolution theory so the word "evolve" is something in strongly believes in more ways than one.