Debating tribalism; seriously.

[Jaidi]

There is no solution. It can't be separated from the political realm unless Somalis dominant way of life changes drastically.

[Voltage]

Wanting the "best" for your clan means that you will maneuver for them in the political realm as well. I find the people who try to separate them into two autonomous spheres even more delusional( and maybe even dishonest) than the people who try to get rid of the entire institution. Acknowledge reality head on, no need for sugar coating.

So what's the solution?

*Edit*

So there is no solution? Just wait for social evolution? What a pessimistic mentality.

[BlackVelvet]

BV in todays Somalia there are no true nationalist we are all divided in clan lines and every one of us consider our different clans to be the best thing to ever happen. So it's kinda hard to define who's false or true nationalist.

The 4.5 system was a horrible idea and it has been made worse by the federalism ideology. Somalis have always had qabiil but in todays Somalia, qabiil is being institutionalised. We are so caught up trying to hold one up over one another we don't realise the stage is being set for continuous conflict.

[Voltage]

Somalis have always had qabiil but in todays Somalia, qabiil is being institutionalised.

Thank you BV.

Qabiil exists in Somalia and Somali culture. You cannot deny it. You cannot move around it. You cannot take a diasporic view or a polar literal intellecutalism that denies this reality. No one has ever gotten somewhere by denying the reality.

Will qabiil disappear from the socio-cultural foundation of Somali people overnight? I do not believe it for a second.

But can it be neutered so that it does not become rooted qabyaalad and institutionalized in the political life of Somalis?

This is what I think should be the short-term solution.

[waryaa]

qabiil is just as stupid qabyaalad, even without its politics it creates more bad than good.

I agree with the 1st portion.. I don't think we'd be in harmony if abolished.

Societies, past and present are always divided along lines. Look at Ireland, it is divided by faith within Christianity (Protestants vs Catholics). Iraq and Syria are like that (Shia and Sunni Muslim). In western countries, aside from religion, hate can also come in the form of ethnicity or nationalism. Ours is very unique and different. For instance, Kismayo, is always conquered by outsiders who are welcomed by portion of the locals that share tribal lineage with the invaders. Locals turn against each other while each is harboring new comers who don't even speak the local dialect! None of major invaders, Morgan, Bare Hirale, Jes, etc came from Kismayo and they all ruled there because they got help from locals. This tribal system blinded Kismayo population and steered them away from forming their own administration. The night Sh. Sharif was elected, many people in Bosaso were rooting for his challenger and stayed awake the whole night, only because he hailed from darod clan (like a distant cousin separated by 800 years). Having said that, I still believe even if we didn't have tribalism, we'd find ways to kill and maim each other.

Personally, I believe in ciyalka xafada (get local) more than anything else. I follow local news, down to the neighborhood and my next door neighbor is closer to to me than the rest.

[qoraxeey]

here we go again

[Eaglehawk]

Qabiil is not a bad thing as long as it serves your interest.
Am already studying how to keep qabiil in a post tribal society, I am looking at "The west" vs slavism

[Voltage]

Qoroxeey.

Waryaa that is a really interesting assessment. So you agree the overwhelming majority of Somalis have a rooted nature of recognising and accepting the reality of tribe in their culture and society.

However, your solution to prevent that recognition from being used as a political tool (Qabyaalad) is to have a "ciyaalka xaafada" strategy. Very interesting. What if all your neighbors just so happen to be from your clan? Suppose later you become something and resort to your network to surround you as naturally happens and all the people you surround yourself will be your tribe even though you were coming from "ciyaaalka xaafada" perspective.

There is a disconnect there. I think a sound strategy has to be developed to separate qabyaalad from qabiil while recognizing and not trying to deny qabiil exists but that qabyaalad is an evil that should not be allowed to manifest itself in practice and politics.

[Shirib]

It needs to be eradicated, little good comes from qabiil, the bad far outweighs the good. You can't expect a person who uses qabiil in personal social manners to not use it when put in a place of power. If you think that's the case you're living in a different planet.

[SahanGalbeed]

In order to make sense of these things one has to first have a sense of tribal humility that is currently not shown among a vast number of Somali tribes, clans and subclans.
Secondly in order to move forward , we need tribes with a strong sense of direction / sharing/ commonality that is absent in many of the other somali tribes exclusing mine { that's a fact}.
You all can say whatever you want but actions speak louder than words .

We do not use qabyaalad as a mechanism to support our INTEREST , the thruth is we've never had a common interest before we were met by a group of people who belonged to tribal group who had a common hate for us , it is an INSURANCE policy for us , a platform for EQUALITY and JUSTICE .
Call me back when you get there and start practising with your Ogaden neighbours

[Voltage]

Shirib do you recognize that you are Geledi and your clan does istun and those are cultural artifacts that are important to your family?

[Shirib]

Shirib do you recognize that you are Geledi and your clan does istun and those are cultural artifacts that are important to your family?

yes, and I think if you were trying to show qabiil with the istun you used a terrible example.

[Voltage]

yes, and I think if you were trying to show qabiil with the istun you used a terrible example.

Istun is not necessarily my point. You just told me being Geledi is an important cultural artifact for both you and your family. You are aware of your tribe and recognize its position in your life. It totally destroys your premise to not recognize tribe. Do you not realize that?

So now that you have realized your recognition of tribe in the life and world of a Somali, how do you prevent it from being used as a vehicle for political power and ill use (aka qabyaalad) is the point.

[PrinceDaadi]

There is no solution. It can't be separated from the political realm unless Somalis dominant way of life changes drastically.

Qabiil gets less and less as u move to the South and the reason was because of the socio economic and even today's Somalia if ppl's social security is covered their qabiil tendency decreases/

So i believe Qabiil/qabyaalad can be cured by creating prosperity because now we use qabiil as insurance but we can get our living from some where else we will try to be come individual.


As Abdullahi Suldan Timacade pointed out Qabiil/qabyalaaad has no value to our lives as individual and as community.

[LaY-D_LicK]

The problems in Somalia is the Value people have put on qabiil ...

Qabiil is not something that will ever leave us its how we now look at it is what needs to change ...

I think if we Gathered the people that were raised in the west without qabiil issue around them we could learn something from them ...

The Qur'an says Allaah made us different tribes not that we may hate one another but so that we may get to know one another ...