Simple Observation

[daiman]

Who can deal with Osob mentality

By anyway, this talk (by Alshariif) sounds an ingenious distraction to keep us from talking about the real current issue.
Gabeyre gabyre ku lahaa. What about the land grabbing that has been happening in Mogadishu in the past 20 yrs? even some people built on the roads...iyo wadiiqooyinkii yaryaraa.......
The thing that the former government deal with it has to be put behind. Any new government should deal with what is going on NOW.

[Lamagoodle]

My Grasp of Somalia is limited because i dont agree with you? You still did not answer my Question, How did Booli Qaran not belong to the government when it was the Government who took away the Land, Build on it and handed the keys to who ever they desired? Bal ninkaan fiireeye waxow ku hadlaayo, They is a difference between nationalizing a petrol station and taking the land of those who it belonged to by force. No matter how much you try nothing will ever justify that action. If you and your relatives are very kind and want to give your land to the public good than so be it but some of us would have liked to keep ours thank you. As for schools and ministries, as i said some of the damage might not be able to be undone but those who are giving it up must also be compensated rightfully. Somalia today is no longer a dictatorship and everyone who rightfully owns land that was taken forcefully prior or after 1991 should get their properties back no questions asked.

Dear Osob. Booli-qaran does not belong to any government. It never did and it will never do. What belongs to a government belongs to the people; Jaamacada Gaheyr, Stadium, Madaxtooyada, golaha ummada, schools, hospitals etc.

You have to differentiate between "government" and thugs. There is no damage in building schools, hospitals, airports, theatres etc.

I think you will make a better argument if you claim that government officials acquired property for private use. That has happened.

Again let me remind you this; The communist regime confisticated industries, petrol stations, and turned them into a property of the people. Alot of the owners were reimbursed (under value) and I have yet to read about people wanting their assets back.

As Niya said there is a need for land reform in Somalia. The confisticated property by the government for the common good should serve that purpose. In the case that individuals (government officials or not) stole land/farms, then common sense dictates that that should be returned to their owners.

Property rights - and laws to protect them is what is needed.

Thuga; gartay.

[Shirib]

We want our so called "nationalized" farms back. There was never any compensation, they were just simply handed over to government officials, and after that taken over by mooryaan.

[Lamagoodle]

We want our so called "nationalized" farms back. There was never any compensation, they were just simply handed over to government officials, and after that taken over by mooryaan.

Shirib, the former government "nationalised" less than a dozen plantations; these were mainly owned by Italian settlers. There were no major claims from the owners when this happened in the begining of the 70s.

However, government officials (Ministers, governors, directors, military/police officials and anyone who had power) "stole" the farmlands in the interriverine areas. They forced peasants from the river banks.

This injustice should not be equated with the actions of the government in nationalising industries, land to build public good e,g. schools, hospitals etc.

[Shirib]

We want our so called "nationalized" farms back. There was never any compensation, they were just simply handed over to government officials, and after that taken over by mooryaan.

Shirib, the former government "nationalised" less than a dozen plantations; these were mainly owned by Italian settlers. There were no major claims from the owners when this happened in the begining of the 70s.

However, government officials (Ministers, governors, directors, military/police officials and anyone who had power) "stole" the farmlands in the interriverine areas. They forced peasants from the river banks.

This injustice should not be equated with the actions of the government in nationalising industries, land to build public good e,g. schools, hospitals etc.

okay im talking about some Ogadeen general or MP forgot who he was who came and pretty much said this plot of land is mine and took it using government force. If the government shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of their officials using the name of their dowlad, then who should?

[The_Patriot]

warya lama why dont you join the TFG at least you can replace some imbeciles.

I wana ask one question if Boli Qorane was lets say nationalised and later awarded to govt officials,were these govt officials exclusively from one clan?

[Lamagoodle]

Shirib,
At the heart of the somali problem is the issue of justice; unless wrongs are not addressed then we shall go nowhere. There are also several myths around.

My input to this issue is simple; if the government has confisticated your property,plot of land, farm to ensure the development of the country e,g. road building, cash crop farms, housing government agencies, hospitals, mililary barracks etc then let bygones be bygones. This is our common property.

In the case that individuals are involved i.e. it is individuals who have stolen property in the name of a government, then due cause in neccessary. The property should be returned to the right owners.

Is that clear?.

Claiming Booli Qaran belongs to the government is utterly wrong. No somali government has ever laid to claim to Booli qaran.

[Hyperactive]

whjat Booli Qaran means?

[Lamagoodle]

warya lama why dont you join the TFG at least you can replace some imbeciles.

I wana ask one question if Boli Qorane was lets say nationalised and later awarded to govt officials,were these govt officials exclusively from one clan?

It was never nationalised so that kills the assumption. The government did not nationalise plots.

The booli qaran area and many other areas in Somalia belonged to the local government. It was the local government that decided deeds. If the mayor or local government officials abused their powers and gave lucrative deeds to their families, friends etc, then legally it is a crime.


Hyper; Booli qaran= national coffers = booli= a stray=lost qaran= national

[The_Patriot]

whjat Booli Qaran means?

Beverly Hills of Somalia.

Yacni where the filthy rich resided.

[Shirib]

Lamagoodle,

Here's the situation, there was some prime farmland that belonged to my great grandfather aun. Some government officials took it, no compensation was paid, and it wasn't/isn't being used for national use, but rather for personal profit of the people who stole it.

When the war started the land was taken over by mooryaan, the previous government officials obviously fled.

Now when peace and stability returns, I'm under the impression that the land should be returned to my family. That's the only just thing to do. No?

[The_Patriot]

Lamagoodle,

Here's the situation, there was some prime farmland that belonged to my great grandfather aun. Some government officials took it, no compensation was paid, and it wasn't/isn't being used for national use, but rather for personal profit of the people who stole it.

When the war started the land was taken over by mooryaan, the previous government officials obviously fled.

Now when peace and stability returns, I'm under the impression that the land should be returned to my family. That's the only just thing to do. No?

D you have title deeds?

[AbdiWahab252]

I am supportive of any program that hands back land to private individuals whose properties were nationalized by the MSB regime. I also support the nationalization of all properties built with stolen Somali taxpayer funds. I find it reprehensible that individuals who stole government funds be allowed to profit from their crimes against the Somali taxpayer. These programs should also be implemented overseas with teams of financial forensic experts to track down Somali government assets overseas and reclaim them.

Nationalization by MSB's regime was a crime against the Somali people. It killed off foreign investment in Somalia. It set back the free market in Somalia. The Somali Central Bank in its last years became a checking account for those close to the regime I remember my father having to pay % to get US dollars out of his USD account because there was very little liquidity and the stupid international organization would only pay into a Somali Bank account of which there was ONLY one Somali bank

Waryaa, its not only Salaad Gabeyre's families but also the Ainanashe family and the Delaal family. All three consipirators were executed by the MSB for alleged treason.

[Lamagoodle]

Lamagoodle,

Here's the situation, there was some prime farmland that belonged to my great grandfather aun. Some government officials took it, no compensation was paid, and it wasn't/isn't being used for national use, but rather for personal profit of the people who stole it.

When the war started the land was taken over by mooryaan, the previous government officials obviously fled.

Now when peace and stability returns, I'm under the impression that the land should be returned to my family. That's the only just thing to do. No?

Dear Shirib, That is a common grievance. It is true too.
But that is not nationalization is it? That is theft and abuse of power.

You can blame the government for allowing that to happen. But claiming that those farms belonged to the government as Osob did is preposterous

Any government that does not create the right kind of mechanisms (read an infrastructure) to undo past deeds will never succeed. Justice is what has eluded us.

[PrinceDaadi]

I think we r missing something here, a large tracks of land belonging to the indigineous people was confisticated by the government which in the early yrs it used to To build communist era institution, factories and other support buildings later on more land was Taking from the local people and was given to people who had Government connections.

Now since the current n future Somali governments will not run factories and other useless projects which the previous government used to run maxaa diidaa in dhulka loo celiyo dadki dhulka Lahaa ama faracoodi.?