SomaliNet Forums

The Zanj say that God did not make them black in order to disfigure them; rather it is their environment that made them so. The best evidence of this is that there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black. These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their wives from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim. This Harra is such that the gazelles, ostriches, insects, wolves, foxes, sheep, asses, horses and birds that live there are all black. White and black are the results of environment, the natural properties of water and soil, distance from the sun, and intensity of heat. There is no question of metamorphosis, or of punishment, disfigurement or favor meted out by Allah. Besides, the land of the Banu Sulaim has much in common with the land of the Turks, where the camels, beasts of burden, and everything belonging to these people is similar in appearance: everything of theirs has a Turkish look."

this is a translation of aljahiz work..

original dervish wrote:My pride comes from my dervish ancestory

Yes the stable boy Ismaaciil Mire, we have seen your pride-day exihibtion on my Dervish thread

gurey25 wrote:

The Zanj say that God did not make them black in order to disfigure them; rather it is their environment that made them so. The best evidence of this is that there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black. These tribes take slaves from among the Ashban to mind their flocks and for irrigation work, manual labor, and domestic service, and their wives from among the Byzantines; and yet it takes less than three generations for the Harra to give them all the complexion of the Banu Sulaim. This Harra is such that the gazelles, ostriches, insects, wolves, foxes, sheep, asses, horses and birds that live there are all black. White and black are the results of environment, the natural properties of water and soil, distance from the sun, and intensity of heat. There is no question of metamorphosis, or of punishment, disfigurement or favor meted out by Allah. Besides, the land of the Banu Sulaim has much in common with the land of the Turks, where the camels, beasts of burden, and everything belonging to these people is similar in appearance: everything of theirs has a Turkish look."

this is a translation of aljahiz work..

There where Charles Darwin got his "natural selction" and "enviromental effect " from, again the Europeans will argue evolution was invented by them. Just like the Pythgrean theorm or Euclid therom. History is who ever wrote it not what really took place. There are a solid prove that:

CSq= asq+bsq. in right angle triangle

That therom is Egptian and the papyrus is in Moscow musuem, but the whites will never update their high school books.

Yes, and your Atheism has be noted.

original dervish wrote:Yes, and your Atheism has be noted.

One new word for you its called "intellectualism" when a man has a vast amount of knowledge that literally he can debate many things at the same time thats what education means... not some paper from the university. In your case you need at least half a century to catch up with me, Dervish and somali history to me is a peiece of cake , in fact even Islam/Arab history and African too is a peiece of cake as far as am concerned, you in the other hand have a Dervish as nickname and you can't tell who is who and what is what in that small phase of somali history, a typical clanniest jaahil.

Actually Arabs were more racist towards black after the founding of Islam.

x/playa and gurey, wouldn't you guys say the moors were more of a geo-political group, i.e. the Muslim states of north/west Africa as opposed to a specific tribe/nation? infact the name 'moor' is said by some latin-based academics to be the name of the region of 'mauritania' which until today is a boiling pot of berber/persian/arab/sub saharan african groups? the Arabs did not use the term 'moor' as far as im aware, it was always either maghreb el 3rab or ifriqiya. only western historians used the term moor, so its a matter of reconciling both regional differences in different times of history. for instance, tariq bin ziyaad, the conqueror of iberia or what some call al andalus, was known in some arabic scriptures as a persian/arab ex slave who spread islam to the west. this is the castle built in his rulership of gibraltar, notice how they westerners depict it as the 'moorish castle' in its title.



infact the first time i came across the term moor was when we studied Shakespeares work, his book about the tragedy of Othello, a moorish captain of venice. in the theatre they use to bring rough looking eastern europeans to play the part of Othello, though im not sure if this is an attempt to push out potential moorish ancestry being sub saharan african and whatnot.

moors referred to a geographical are and specifically berbers.
most of the muslim armies were berbers, and the yemenis and syrians made up a small minority.

this is why moor became synonymous with muslim, because they were berbers and some of them were dark skinned berbers.

and then you have the murabitun who had allot of dark skinned berbers, actually the majority of their armies were dark skinned berbers and even some black africans.
The murabitun placed the image of the dark moor in the european minds.

Thanks, but I`ll stick with mainstream academia, and you can stick with the basement marfish.

abobkar,

Tariq was a Berber slave thats well known , and also little is known that he wasn't even a Muslim, but his end became swfit as soon as Musa Ibn Nusayr the Arab ruler of "ifriiqaya" asn north Africa was called then , heared of Tariq wining the battle he recalled him , whiped him and ordered him to remove his new cloths and put on the slave garment. That was the end of Tariq Ibn Ziyad , but the Islamist never mention this part of his life and how he ended his career, they always brag about his conquest.

Now as far as the word Moor , the European were right to regard the word moor as a black , i always pushed the Berber argument till i came accross a google book of the 16 century Purtoges arrival at the somali coast, they described every somali port from Marka to Berbera and Mait and described the people as "moors" , now of course somalis are black africans and the only Europeans who had a first hand knoweldge of the Moors were the Spanirads and Purtoges. thats 100% prove that the word Moor meant black not just Berber.

xplaya

the portugese also referred to keralite muslims as moors, the rest as pagan.
The muslims in indonesia and malaya were moors as opposed to the non-muslim molukus islanders.
The philipine muslims are still refered to as moors, or moro not as muslims, its even used in news broadcasts in tagalog.

So the word means Muslims/Blacks , not Berbers. If the usage of the word was exclusive to Berber then why call all these people moor, you see modern white europeans refuse to apply the term to black-africans , but they gladly apply it to Arabs/Berbers,

He use to lead the armies and even after he died, the prophet let his son who was like 15yrs to lead the army. while they were major sahabis in there, like Omar and Ali etc.